Breaking News: Msgr. Lynn and Those Accused of Abuse Will Stand Trial Together

“Monsignor, other clerics to stand trial together,” by David O’Reilly, Inquirer Staff Writer, July 29, 2011

Excerpt from above link:

“Philadelphia Common Pleas Court Judge Lillian Ransom denied defense motions to throw out the conspiracy charges against Lynn and the other defendants in the high profile case involving sexual assaults on two boys in the 1990s.”

70 thoughts on “Breaking News: Msgr. Lynn and Those Accused of Abuse Will Stand Trial Together

  1. It is time for the civil athorities to begin dealing seriously with the abuse of children and vulnerable adults that has been documented in the RCC.

    This may be a difficult time for Catholics. Facing up to the harm our Church has done to others could be very hard for us to take. The shame and sorrow we will feel may cause us to want to shut down the investigation.

    Let us be prayerful during this time and ask for the grace to accept the consequences of the arrogance and secrecy that have been characteristic of our hierarchy. Let us also remember that it is they who committed these crimes of covering up, not we who love God and value the tenats of our Faith.

    1. I am glad the truth is out and the church is getting cleaned up. It is about time. I will pray. In the end it is all about getting souls to heaven and preparing ourselves to meet Jesus. Some of us never realize this……..some of us realize this and rebel and sin and some of us need to hit rock bottom to turn our lives around. These men are sick and have attractions to kids but the sin is that they acted on them and covered them up. In a way consequences for our actions can be seen as God’s compassion trying to lead us back to him. Hard hearts and sinful hearts are difficult to break thru maybe jail time will not only protect kids but break thru their stoney hearts. No likely but truth remorse has healing qualities.

  2. On The trial upcoming: If they are guilty as charged, I pray they are found guilty and sentenced.
    The numbers of cases of alleged abuse by Roman Catholic priests is astounding, it beggars the imagination that apparently in so many instances this terrible crime has been perpetrated by men or women placed in positions of great trust.
    This enormity leads one to question and wonder if it is an act of God, even in this dispensation of grace — an act of God judging the ways of man in our time?

    1. How about this thought – it isn’t God judging the ways of man. Its God giving the congregation a test.

      The test is clear and simple. If I put false idols in front of you in priest outfits and bishop outfits, and I make it clear that they raped children, lied about it, and ignored the victims, would you have enough strength to follow My laws and throw them out, or would you follow their changes to My laws.

      He didn’t make the test that tough.

      1. Patrick O’Malley Wrote:”How about this thought – it isn’t God judging the ways of man. Its God giving the congregation a test.

        You do come up with some doozies Patrick O’Malley! In my post I implicitly admitted i didn’t know what to think — because the best theological info I have found says that until the last soul is saved, and the Body of Christ joins the Lord in the heavens–
        judgment is withheld in this age. But your thought is another thing. I don’t see God “testing” the Catholic “congregation” but I can believe He may be calling–drawing — them to His truth and Himself by exposing [an act of God, or nature?] the false leaders and teachers.

  3. Please remember that one priest that abuses children does NOT stop at one victim instead goes on to rape and abuse many, many children. This church knew about these abusers and their history’s and deliberatly choose to protect their priests. This has been going on {the sexual abuse of children in this country has been going on since before the middle ages and actually punished them much more severly than they do today. So their argument that they didn’t understand sexual abuse is bogus. If every victim in this country that has been abused by a priest came forward, the people in the pews would pass out! My heart rejoices that the judge refused to throw out the conspiracy charge. Msgr. Lynn knew all three of my abusers and choose to do nothing and told me they would pay for my therapy out of charity!

    1. Vicky I hope you can feel a little better knowing that these men are hopefully getting what they deserve. Thank you for coming forward and making them pay for what they did.

  4. Here’s my problem. If you are a lonely RC priest and in the midst of a “Sexual Revolution” (see John Jay report), why do you have to abuse our children? Why can’t you have a consentual adult relationship? Is it because you need to have control? or power? Why do you have no ability to stand on your own? Who did this to you?
    When the clerical voices calling for justice are barely able to be heard in Philadelphia, is it any wonder that we have stopped listening?

    1. That’s a good question and part of the solution. Many protestant pastors have affairs with women. That seems like their main problem. Why are these priests going after kids? Maybe because they know they can get away with it and that is why they became priests? Not all priests but some who appear to go on to molest hundreds of children.


        I think the media has very successfully isolated the Catholic Church in the overall problem of sexual abuse of children. And sadly, an overwhelming majority of our priests who are innocent, are all now treated suspiciously. We need to pray for them too. Let us not vilify all clergy for the sins of some.

      2. Is that what we have been reduced too? Comparing our Church with other religions that have abused children also? It is like when your child does something wrong and then points out that other kids did bad things also. Sorry but I am tired of hearing this.All children deserve to be safe .No child should ever be abused. I am focusing on the Catholic Church because although obviously this problem exists in other segments of society,I feel the cover up is not as widespread as it has been within the Catholic Church. If we want to start comparing the abuse of children -we have reached an all time low.

      3. Actually I need to clarify what I stated. The horrendous cover up of child rape within the Catholic Church is what brought me to the issue of child sex abuse. I now am not concentrating on the Catholic Church but rather legislature that would keep ALL children of Pennsylvania safer. But guess what ? The legislation is deemed anti catholic by many,just as the news media is also anti catholic. We sure are good at playing the victim role in this whole crisis. And the real victims ,the children who were sexually abused,are somehow lost in this whole scenario.

      4. Kathy Kane, if you would observe the comments of both Beth’s above, I was responding to their perception that protestant scandals happen more with adults, and that priests are only with children. My point is that you can’t let your anger blind you from the real facts. Sexual abuse pervades every aspect of society. Period. My good friend was abused as a child by a Methodist Minister, and I am very personally aware of its traumatic effect on this person. I grieve for him. Like you, I am fully in favor of prevention, and absolute justice, no matter the denomination. But I also get sick and tired of people who indiscriminately generalize.

      5. TL, We all know that sexual abuse of children happens everywhere. It is not a Church problem. The COVER UP of childhood sexual abuse is a huge Church problem. I thank the news media for sharing Cardinal Bevilacqua’s testimony and the Grand Jury Report. Catholics deserve the facts about their misguided leadership. The damage done to the clergy was done to them by their superiors – not the media. The clergy needs to stand up and speak out. We should, too. Together, we can demand needed changes in policy and protect our children and our faith.

      6. Re:Comparing Abuse, e.g.,the link to the “Reformation” page. It turns my stomach! Why should Catholics be reminded of abuse in other denominations when so few of them care about the abuse in their own denomination? I have heard this “defense” one too many times. Enough!

      7. None of you have seemed to grasp that my earlier comment has nothing to do with the Catholic cover up. It was a response to these actual statements from comments on your blog: “If you are a lonely RC priest and in the midst of a “Sexual Revolution” (see John Jay report), why do you have to abuse our children? Why can’t you have a consentual adult relationship?” and “Many protestant pastors have affairs with women. That seems like their main problem. Why are these priests going after kids?” I was simply pointing out that those observations are a bit too general. Interesting, though, that you let those kind of statements fly without challenge.

      8. TL
        I was reacting/responding to this statement you made:
        “I think the media has very successfully isolated the Catholic Church in the overall problem of sexual abuse of children.” And also to the link that you posted.

      9. TL, I’m sorry I missed your point. Pedophilia is a psychiatric condition – not a choice. A pedophile can strike anywhere. Conditions where there is unquestioned trust would attract pedophiles. Conditions where their crimes would be covered up would be even more enticing.

      1. I don’t think anyone pays much attention to what TL says. He’s your standard Catholic that:

        – tries to distract buy saying it happens elsewhere (which it does not, of course, at this volume, and no one else has a similar cover up)
        – blames it all on the media

        Soon, he will come with the explanation that this is a witch hunt by people that hate Catholics because they oppose gays, condoms, and abortions.

        They all use the same mindless tactics to distract from their unprecedented horrors. It works on their congregation.

  5. Beth Kane asks abusing priests ‘Why can’t you have a consensual adult relationship?’ BK 25,000 priests left to get married, They left , doing the honorable thing. That left many tempted slugs who had no honor to staff the church. We have 17000 married deacons who could ‘save’ the Church but they and their bishops do not have the manly courage to step up to making them fully ordained.. No honor and no courage. Courage in the Church is not considered a virtue… it is considered evil.. a temptation. a nuisance to have around. No seminary ever fielded a contact sport. They tell them play golf or tennis. no contact there..
    If you train wimps you get wimps and I am not talking about gays either. ..

  6. Married priests won’t change the problems with abuse inside of the Catholic Church. In fact, it will make things worse. Most child abuse victims are abused by their own biological fathers. After that, the next in line are abused by another family member, then a family friend. Abuse by clergy accounts for a very small percentage of childhood sexual abuse overall. Having said that, the percentage of priests who abuse kids is pretty high; about 9.7% Also, there is no other profession on the planet where an adult can rape a child and have it covered-up so strategically as the Catholic Church has covered-up so many allegations of abuse against their own clergy.

    Furthermore, the problems that exist within the Catholic Church have less to do with the actually abusers than with the hierarchy. I look at the abusers as evil creatures, who cannot control their perverted and sick desires and use children as they wish for their own deviant gratification. The bigger issue here is that so many non-abusers knew about these crimes and did absolutely nothing to protect children. Had so many priests been removed from ministry after the first allegation of abuse, so many more children would have been spared. Did you know that a child molester at the age of 50 has on average, 157 victims? Just think for a moment, had that abuser been stopped after one victim, 156 other lives wouldn’t have been destroyed. One victim is still too many! If it weren’t for victims come forward legally and publicly, these priests would have continued to abuse children. If the victims didn’t hold the church responsible and accountable, church leaders would still be allowing these monsters to abuse kids today.

    Lawsuits filed against the Catholic Church around the globe serve a warning to church officials that we will not continue to remain silent and we are breaking through and pushing forward and if the Church won’t do anything to curb these bastards, then they leave us victims no other option but to curb the abuse ourselves. The Catholic Church is deaf unless there’s the sound of money. If a collection box falls on the floor in an empty church and there’s no one around to hear it, does it make a sound? You better believe it does. They can here it in Rome!

    The only true method in stopping sexual abuse is by holding those who knew about it and did nothing responsible. The federal government didn’t go after smokers when they found out that tobacco was directly linked to cancer, but instead went to the executives who knew that smoking wasn’t good for your health and continued to lie to it’s customers that it had been linked to cancer. Cancer is an enemy, but Big Tobacco and all the other industries that put the “little guy” in harms way is responsible for not disclosing the dramatic health defects to smokers. Today, the tobacco industry is falling apart. Executives who were making millions of dollars each year are now either unemployed, or making far less money. Many people who had smoked “Jesus” have quit. It’s just not worth it anymore. The feel good value of belonging to a certain group is less comforting and more dangerous. Besides, it’s kids these big businesses are directing their attention toward and we much prevent it.

    There’s no such thing as stopping sexual abuse in the Catholic Church by allowing priests to marry. That is total rubbish. If priests were to marry and have children, now the problem would be two-fold. You’d have deviant priests abusing their own children and you’d have the regular sickos of the past and present abusing kids. Maybe allow women to become priests? I’ll have you know that many, many victims of sexual abuse within the Catholic Church were abused by nuns. In fact, nuns account for the highest percentage of Church employees who have “physically” abused children.

    I don’t see a problem with having an all-male priesthood, just as I don’t have a problem with an all-female car dealership. I do have a problem when these men or women are abusing kids and it’s covered-up by their bosses.

    1. Excellent post. I agree.

      Hold those who knew and did nothing accountable and we’ll see things change.

      It’s why there’s mandated reporting…essentially, if teachers knew of “something” and did not report…they are going down right along with the abuser.

      The perversion of the priesthood (why many young derelicts gravitate toward it) will not change if they are allowed to marry. This is not about some guy who can’t get his “needs” met.

    2. I think there is alot of truth to what you say. My husbands abuser was married and had kids and went on to abuse kids in his church. I think people close to him knew what he was doing……….they could have stopped it……….they are who I am most angry with now. Many make the enablers out to be vicitms too……….but isn’t it instinct in people with a informed conscience to protect their young at all costs………that’s what I did and believe me it cost me alot but I still have my intergrity………….and kids are safer

  7. “Another priest, the Rev James Brennan, 47, is charged with raping and sexually assaulting a 14-year-old boy in 1996”

    The question is….how many more did he abuse that cannot come forward?

    “The bigger issue here is that so many non-abusers knew about these crimes and did absolutely nothing to protect children”

    And how do you know….that those who knew about these crimes and did absolutely nothing to protect the children…..are not abusers THEMSELVES?

    How do you know that they are not? It does not calculate that they would not find this so repugnant as normal men…that they would not do everything in their power to weed this out and stop it in it’s tracks.

    They are all child abusers in one way or another!

  8. I don’t believe that God is religion. God can be anything someone looks at as a higher being. Organized religion was created by man and I think it was created as a means to control people. I don’t believe in a God or any number of Gods. I don’t believe I’m on this Earth from spontaneous combustion either. I believe there’s something out there, but I don’t believe if you pray to it you’ll get a new bicycle for your birthday. When I was a kid, during the abuse, I prayed to God constantly to intervene and stop the abuse. He never answered, or at least his answer was, “No.” I consider myself agnostic. I believe in good people who do good things to benefit themselves, their families, and total strangers. My motto, “Do something good in secret and have it discovered by accident.” I think at the end of the day, if I have done the best I could and I didn’t break any hearts or step on anyone beneath me, then my life is sacred and blessed without religion.

    As for knowing if those who did not directly abuse children have knowledge that children were being abuse, would I call them child abusers as well? I can’t answer that question easily. For sure they have greatly endangered the welfare of a child, and that is precisely why Monsignor Lynn will stand trial with those who have abused children. I have so much hate for the priest who abused me, it’s hard to look beyond him at those who knew this priest was an abuser and continued to look the other way, or shuffled this perpetrator from one place to another to abuse more children. I find that I do have hatred for those who knew about it and covered it up. But when the darkness settles in and the demons come at night, it is my abuser I see peeking out of the closet. I fear him almost as much as I hate him. Still… he had several second chances to prove to others that he could become a changed man. I never got one. The only option I would ever have would be coerced by a loaded 9mm Barretta or talking to someone before I did something permanent.

    In 1990, while the abuse was occurring, I went home from school one day and raided my mother’s medicine drawer. I found Percocet she took for migraine headaches. I laid the pills out on my bed next to me, counted 22 times, and swallowed all of them, only to wake up a few hours later with a pounding headache and stomachache. Do you know how worthless a person feels when you can’t even commit suicide the right way?

    I wonder now why I was the one who felt like he didn’t belong on this Earth. Why didn’t my abuser take his own life? He was for sure the evil side of everything my life had become. It was his fault that I stared out into space in school and barely learned anything throughout high school. It was his fault that I became a zombie and I didn’t trust anyone enough to even want to talk to them. He is to blame for this shitty life. Abuse just makes a person a certain kind of way. You can’t understand my mentality unless you’ve walked in my shoes. I know some people who post here have walked the same path as I have and for that I’m sorry. I wish I could’ve known then what I know now and maybe I could’ve been there for you.

    Sexual abuse is NOT who I am anymore. Reliving it and letting it eat away at the core of my being is a mistake and it continues to give more power to my abuser. Honestly, he still has a grasp on me, but I am fighting back everyday and I am freeing myself from the ties that bind. By supporting victims and standing with them in solidarity, I feel a sense of accomplishment and I feel like I am part of a movement that will never allow a child to experience the life I’ve had, and that to me is justice. I will still have my bad days of course, but after 20 years since the abuse ended, I feel stronger now than I ever have. I feel like life is worth living because I can help other victims stop blaming themselves and direct that blame to where it’s most important – upon the evil and demented individuals who would prefer annihilation of innocence.

    As Monsignor Lynn stands trial alongside of priests accused of sexually abusing and raping young boys, I will be in that courtroom everyday, as I have been in the past, hoping that some measure of “criminal” justice is handed down. I commend the victims who came forward against these priests, and I’m in awe at the age in which they were able to do it, and because of their courage, the world may get a front row seat to what really sustains the Catholic Church when everything else falls away. People will understand after this trial just how difficult life is for us victims when we are not only molested and raped, but when our abusers are permitted to walk free without judgment and retribution.

    Please heed my warnings. I don’t want your child, or grandchild, or any child to know what it’s like to be an abuse victim.

  9. victim4justice….

    Don’t give up your faith in God the Father of our Saviour Jesus Christ. Find the real Jesus Christ in the Bible. Read the Pauline epistles.

    Everything else in your email, I found how much we are alike, and I know the feeling of a failed attempt. I thank God now, because at the time I should have woken up in Hell. God has plans for us.

    I ask God to bless you with all truth and His comfort.

  10. Give up my faith? Don’t you have to have faith to begin with? By the way, don’t tell me what to do. I’ll decide for myself with what I want to believe in. Don’t push your beliefs on me just like I won’t push my disbeliefs on you.

  11. This is truly the most heart-felt and honest treatise showing the impact
    clergy sexual abuse has on a person from childhood on into adulthood. For many children, “faith” is lost. That is one of the unique features of clergy sexual. The concept of “god” gets aligned with abuse, neglect, punishment, loneliness, endless tears, hopelessness, powerlessness, pain, and so many other conflicting and confusing emotions and thoughts. Trust fails to develop and isolation, depression, self-doubt and other plagues of the psyche run the person’s life. That anyone survives this and wishes just to be a good person and help others is a testimony to the true essence of who this person is. The miracle here is that the abuser failed to touch this precious part of this being’s spirit.

    Thank you for being real…

    1. To Sharon E. King LPC-
      That is so “spot on!” I pray when Rich reads your post , and other sincere posts here, he will see for himself that there really are many who do understand his suffering, and who do want good outcome for him, as well as for others like him.

  12. I apologize Victims4justice. It was not meant in the spirit of telling you what to do. I read what you wrote about some of what happened to you and how you felt…and was simply overcome with sincere compassion…not only for you, but for everyone here…including myself.

    1. This is in response to TL. I as a survivor would like to point out to those of us that are survivors of abuse that some people on this website are trying to understand what we have been through and because they don’t always “get it” say the wrong thing hoping it will bring us some measure of help. I don’t believe that they say things on purpose to offend. We as survivors have been dealing with the so called church for years and we are well aware of how we have been treated, this, long before this website where people are beginning to realize what we have known for a very long time. I am grateful that people are now speaking up and finally understanding to the best of their ability what it’s been like for us. TL, I respect your apology and I know that you have learned to not say certain things that will trigger an abuse survivor. Thank you for stepping up!

  13. I don’t think any of this is worth arguing about. People who consider themselves faithful Catholics and were not abused or do not know of any abuse victims are going to continue to claim that “abuse occurs in other areas of society,” and “abuse victims come forward for money.” They don’t realize, because they don’t choose to see the truth. They are continually blinded by the deception of abusive priests and the Catholic hierarchy who continues to conceal for those abusers. They don’t know what it’s like to have been abused mostly because they won’t even listen. When I do protests, I always listen to the arguments of parishioners, even when they’re screaming at me, insulting me, and even throwing coins and spitting on me. When I begin to talk after giving them their moment, they again try to tear me down.

    The priest who abused me was very similar to these people. He wanted to control the situation and I’m sure he felt better by being in control. As parishioners insult me, I remember my abuser assaulting me. I remember when I threatened to tell my Mom about the abuse he was putting me through and in retaliation to keep me silent he squeezed one of my testicles. He threatened to hurt me worse if I ever did tell anyone. I believed him. On more than one occasion, he bit down on my private area. He digitally penetrated me with thick sharp fingernails and refused to back off when I cried out and begged him to stop. He forced me to kiss him before I could leave. He wouldn’t let me leave unless I said “I love you.” I didn’t love him, but I said it anyway because I couldn’t wait to get the hell away from him. This is the raw and explicit side of my writings. I was raped many, many times. I can still feel his hard strong hands on my shoulders and him digging his fingers into my shoulder blades. He’d sit in front of where I was sitting and he’d grasp my thighs tightly and sink his fingertips in, leaving marks on my thighs that were visible for most of the time until months later when the abuse stopped. His threats and physical harm to me was enough for me to keep the abuse secret for over 20 years. Whomever I was supposed to become wouldn’t stand a chance, because from the very first time I was abused, I became a different person. I became a scared person. I didn’t trust anyone and I didn’t want to be around anyone. I was isolated before the abuse because nobody liked me. I made myself isolated from the world after the abuse because nobody came to help me.

    That’s the reality of it all. Physical pain during the abuse was very difficult to deal with, but the emotional landslide following the abuse would effect the rest of my life and prove that I had changed, and I no longer quite understood who I was anymore, or what my purpose was on this Earth. That’s what abuse does. It destroys a life. How could I be responsible for listening and learning in school when I couldn’t even breathe? How could I walk through life with any kind of ambition of being someone and doing great things when for many years of this life I didn’t want to live? I don’t understand why some people blame me for seeking justice. I was just a kid when my abuse began. Would you blame other children who were being abused by an adult, or would you blame the adult? Why can’t you see the child inside of me?

    I can’t focus all my energy on other religious denominations. The fact is that I was abused by a Catholic priest and that is the reason I criticize the Catholic church and their mishandling of abuse cases. I’m certain it goes on in other areas of society, and I’m sure other religions have dealt with the same thing, but I was abused by a Catholic and my fight begins with the Catholic Church.

    1. That’s an awful story, V4J. I was sick reading the second paragraph, and am sick knowing that those hypocritical, cowardly congregation members don’t care. They are some of the dumbest and most heartless people on earth.

      You are stronger than any Catholic congregation member for having survived.

      The ones that spit on you or argue with you are the mindless Catholics that still follow the bishops and priests and don’t follow God. Don’t focus on anything other than what you have to to make your life better. You certainly don’t owe anything to anyone in the Catholic church or congregation.

    2. For years there was taboo about speaking about child sexual abuse inside and outside the church. Now and in recent years”we didn’t know” or “don’t want to know or “don’t believe it'”is not going to cut it for an excuse when these people try to get in the gates of heaven. Because of brave vicims like yourself it is not going to hold up in court either. Many who tap into this site are listening and learning from what you have to say as you said before it can be emotionally draining so take the time to recharge but don’t stop…… are impacting many people by what you are saying………because what you are saying is the truth…….whether they want to hear it or not.

  14. Rich
    Your entire post leaves me heartbroken. The abuse is horrific and no child should ever be subject to such evil. When you describe the reaction of parishioners,and I know there was also a priest involved one time,it literally almost sounds like a story set in biblical times. A man who is supposed to be representing Jesus and a crowd of people who have just come from Mass after hearing the Gospel message and recieving the Eucharist,turn on a person who is in pain.If we were to hear this story in mass as a Gospel reading,we would be appalled and the homily the priest would deliver would be filled with the message of how the angry mob did the wrong thing and did not bear witness to the injustice done to their fellow man. Why is this so hard for people to understand?

    1. Yes I was thinking the same thing……… was like when they spit on Jesus and called him names………it’s barbaric all of it……………

  15. I am in awe of the vulnerability being expressed here. This tells me that when survivors share at such a deep level we are beginning to realize that people are Finally starting to “get it”. We have needed to be HEARD without blame and judgement for so long. We don’t often speak of the awful lonliness as a child and as an adult that went along with the shame and abuse. We were told it was our fault as I was too attractive, i begged for it, not one of my abusers took responsibility for what they did to me. I suffered alone sinse the age of 14 until I went to a therapist in my early 40’s because the shame was so toxic. I still at times struggle with telling more of my story after 20 years of therapy. It took me 15 years to begin to trust my therapist. You always wonder “what price will I have to pay”? Especially if someone shows any kind of kindness, will the shoe drop and will I be able to once more, get up. It is an awful experience especially as a child when you know NO ONE will believe that a holy, catholic priest did these things to you. The priest knew parents wouldn’t believe us, as I tried to tell my mother at 15 what Dolan was doing to me, she had me stand 3 hours until I told her it wasn’t true. Later, I would hunt him down in Tennessee at the age of 56 find him and confront him all on video tape. Still, he denied and actually put it on me that I actually came on to him, I was 14 years old!There will be times for the rest of our lives, that we will never forget what our bodies and our spirt suffered in the name of GOD! I tis the strength and courage of the survivor to make it through and live to tell the horrors and hope againist hope that no more innocent children suffer as we did. Their are so many levels to our pain and that is one of the reasons we tend to react as quickly as we do weather its anger or hopelessness or disgust, our lives have been severly altered, we are at a place now as adults that we do the best we can with what we have LEFT, so much was stolen from us! Tears are in my eyes as I write this because we as children had our chance at a normal life and that was literally raped and taken from us, our psyche cannot forget the terror and the betrayal of everyone around us. People just looked the other way, how could they, we were just small children! Our passion is passionate\ because we know how it feels to be a child and helpless and that is why we fight so hard for these laws to be changed, we know the devestation, we know, we know, we know!

  16. Thank you for sharing this vicky. Such courage and strength.

    I wish I had more to say…

    1. I am touched by your replies, I hear your sincerity and you really know what is going on. My best to your husband, he is fortunate to have such an understanding and devoted wife. Thank you for all you say.

  17. why is there such difficulty grasping what people say here, getting it wrong and disputing the truth/data that is researched and collected by responsible institutions? i understand TL’s comment. people are turned off when there is no reasonable discussion.

    1. Senga,
      If you want to be heard, share your experiences. Share your sources of where you get your numbers…and which “responsible institutions” are doing the data collection.

      If you want to discuss something…discuss it. Bring your facts, be upfront about where you get your information, and/or share your experiences.

      If you are here just to create division and drama….that’s on you and others will see it.

      From reading your posts, you come across as bothered and frustrated…by what? That no one is hearing you properly? That we don’t agree with you? Well, “We’re not in Kansas anymore, Toto.”

  18. Senga
    No reasonable discussion? Something happened on this post that doesn’t happen often in the real world. Victims of abuse shared the details of their abuse and personal struggles and people responded in a compassionate and supportive way,in trying to help them in the isolation they so often feel. Victims and laity coming together acknowledging the pain of some people within the Church community. You may not call that reasonable discussion – I call it a beautiful thing.

  19. Senga
    Since you refer to data,the following is from the 2004 john Jay report commissioned by the United State’s Catholic Bishop Conference. This is based on the info that the individual Dioces reported from the years 1950 -2002. It does not take into account the numbers of abused who have never come forward. One child abused is one too many within our Church community
    Behaviour alleged Number of Boys % Number of Girls % Totals combined %
    Verbal (Sextalk) 885 11% 215 12% 1,100 11.6%
    Shown Pornography 223 2.9% 9 0.5% 232 2.4%
    Shown Porn videos 142 1.8% 6 0.3% 148 1.6%
    Touch Over Cleric’s Clothes 704 9.1% 165 9.2% 869 9.2%
    Touch Over Victim’s Clothes 2,862 37.2% 691 38.6% 3,553 37.4%
    Touch Under Victim’s Clothes 3,280 42.6% 701 39.2% 3,981 42%
    Cleric Disrobed 944 12.3% 177 9.9% 1,121 11,8%
    Victim Disrobed 1,112 14.4% 303 16.9% 1,415 14.9%
    Photos of Victim 169 2.2% 32 1.8% 201 2.1%
    Sexual Games 96 1.2% 8 0.4% 104 1.1%
    Hugging & Kissing 324 4.2% 175 9.8% 499 5.3%
    Masturbation 663 8.6% 71 4.0% 734 7.7%
    Mutual Masturbation 1,049 13.6% 29 1.6% 1,078 11.4%
    Cleric Perform Oral Sex 1,186 15.4% 274 15.9% 1,460 15.4%
    Victim Performed Oral Sex 799 10.4% 115 6.4% 914 9.6%
    Manual Penetration 192 2.5% 195 10.9% 387 4.1%
    Penetration with Object 61 0.8% 26 1.5% 87 0.9%
    Penile Penetration 990 12.9% 213 11.9% 1,203 12.7%
    Group or Coerced Sex 48 0.6% 4 0.2% 52 0.5%
    Unspecified Sex Act 942 12.2% 204 11.4% 1,146 12.1%
    Other 490 6.4% 87 4.9% 577 6.1%

    1. Kathy, those numbers are not accurate as NOT all dioceses choose to participate in the john jay report, and don’t forget who paid for the report, I found the report to be inaccurate and skewed! HAPPY 60’S !!and all the excuses this was my time when my abuse was going on full force.

      1. Vicki
        I agree. First not all diocese participated. Second,it is relying on the Diocese to be truthful in their report . Also many victims have never come forward and reported their abuse.The one thing about the data is seeing the sexual acts named with numbers of children next to it -just even seeing that should make people feel sick about any child being abused.

      2. The John Jay report shows absolute minimum numbers. The truth:

        1) the John Jay report was not an investigation. All of the information from the report was voluntary, and depended on the honesty of Catholic bishops, who are now known to be incredibly dishonest.

        2) three percent (3%) of diocese refused to report. This obviously included the worst offenders. One that refused to report was Roger Mahony in Los Angeles, who then paid hush money to over 500 victims four years after the report.

        3) most victims don’t come forward. This is the most sinister part. Children that were raped by priests grow up in shame, and don’t want people to know, especially since they know they will be accused of lying by the Catholic congregation. Child abuse psychologists estimate fewer than one in three will come forward.

        Remember, God cares about the truth, and he cares about children. Today’s Catholic church doesn’t care about either.

  20. i honestly cannot understand why you do not follow. kathy. you seem to have a real problem with me personally, as well. this is getting tedious. and susan commented once that people don’t comment compared to the number of visits recorded,(even tho they are the same people several times a day.) no wonder i usually don’t bother- you make it difficult to want to have a discussion or transmit any sensible, intelligent discussion.Sooo, I will try again. TL said (after an O’malley remark) “Obviously, this is not a forum for reasonable discussion” count down to about comment 21. prior to that (about comment 12) as a matter of fact she tried to ask you as long as you are responding (even tho’ off target) why you were not grasping what she was saying in her remarks. and there were issues with what she was saying. I have no comment and no problem with victims sharing their stories. you misunderstand. i do not know how else to post here . it is really futile and very hostile..

  21. here we go again. i answered you above about your remark on this post. and viola, here we go again. Kathy, i really cannot spend any more time with this and i reiterate that this blog is not accepting unless you are talking about your abuse or priest hate. it is just getting worse.. no wonder the same people only comment. Sooo, here we go again. you are obviously trying to set me straight because you are responding in the wrong section-but whatever…under bevilaqua, i mention that i thought that ed’s remark that “church is STILL a haven for monsters” or something monsters..i can’t go back now. i gave TRUE facts for 2009..7 priest in america w/substantiated and by the way it is i think 6 for 2010. I AM TALKING ABOUT NEW CASES -why do you give me the john jay report which i have read and has nothing to do with my comments to ed. please, read carefully. i really am not up to explaining over and over. done with this

  22. Senga
    I responded to TL’s statement “I think the media has very successfully isolated the Catholic Church in the overall problem of sexual abuse of children” and the link she provided. Not sure what I didn’t grasp in my response to her. I posted the above data because you are interested in data.
    I am glad that you have no problem with victim’s sharing their story,I know from the comments we recieve both on an off site that this forum has provided a place for some victims to feel less isolated. In the end, no matter what our differences are Senga – it is not about you or I,it is about the victims and protection of children.

  23. “TL, I’m sorry I missed your point. Pedophilia is a psychiatric condition – not a choice.”

    Susan, I must make a comment about this, as it is just seems like another out for the monstrous actions of the priests. Psychiatric condition? What does this mean exactly? Have they found a stray gene, or a lack of some protein in their brains, that makes it impossible for them not to act on their twisted passions?

    I can’t help but think this is another form of justification for their abberant behaviour, which is sin against God and man. Their minds, character and sneaky behavior is geared to preying on the most innocent and the most helpless, children. They went so far that God gave them over to their reprobate mind.

    Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

    To say this is a “psychiatric condition” is to nullify any form of punishment, doesn’t it? Do we send them to prison, or a mental hospital? If it were some form of illness, it would not be their fault, would it?

    This literally strikes horror in my heart, that people could think this is a “condition” and not straight out evil sinning. Are we to feel sorrow for our abuser? Quite frankly I do feel sorrow for them, that God will judge them someday to burn in the depths of hell forever, unless they repent and find salvation.

    I’m sorry, but I don’t get this at all.

    1. My point was that as a psychiatric condition (as recognized by the medical community) it can happen in all sectors of society. And to answer your question, yes – there are bio-chemical differences in the brains of pedophiles. However, I was in no way suggesting it should be excused. The medical community for years has also know that there is no cure. All pedophiles must be removed from society. I just find the cover up to be more evil because is was a choice. And the leadership’s contention that some of these priests were “treated” at their medical facilities doesn’t mesh with the medical knowledge available in the 1960s moving forward.

  24. I submit that the lord Jesus Christ has power to heal every victim in this situation; and that He will do so.
    So then, why is this not an accomplished fact at this moment, one asks? I submit that He has been defaced by the “works of the Devil” through the instrumentality of certain men; and that when we look for Him in His Word– we will find Him in His Truth.
    John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

    1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. [My Forum]

  25. Nothing helps when a post turns into an argument. When people write that abuse happens in other areas of society, this is true, by you’re also creating nonsense by promoting deflection from the Church because “abuse happens in every other facet of society.” You may not be able to control wherever abuse occurs outside of the Church, but you can control the abuse that occurs inside of the Church. You can stop giving the Church money, until they prove to you and to the rest of their congregation that they are unwilling to continue to support abusive clergy and alienate the victims. Do you realize, that as victims, our lives have already been destroyed, but the Catholic Church takes a militant stand against us victims to harbor the idea that we are to blame for schools and churches closing down? The Catholic Church fires every missile at us in an effort to destroy those who speak up and speak out in the hopes of maintaining some measure of control over the flock, or the people who will never accept my story and the stories of other victims as truth. People write about the innocence of a specific priest who has been accused of abusing children, because they didn’t see the abuse themselves. It’s an unpractical argument because abuse doesn’t occur in public playgrounds, or on the alter during Sunday Mass. It occurs in secrecy and the victims are bound to maintain that secrecy with threats of physical harm, disappointment from the Almighty, and a psychological disposition that the abuse had an intention and what was happening to us wasn’t wrong, but rather necessary, and for all we knew, this was our punishment.

    The loneliness abuse creates takes on a life of its own. As a victim, you develop protective instincts, and you conform to the idea that you can never trust another human being to get close to you. Intimacy with another person becomes dirty and the fear of anyone actually touching us becomes a reason for us to stay far away. Even after the actually abuse, we continue as victims because we often deny others to know us for who we truly are, and we miss out on the “living” part of life because we so confused about who we can trust and we worry that everyone is just like our abusers. It’s a scary position to be in.

    I wasn’t abused in a public school or by a family member. I can’t take my fight to the kindergarten I went to because I wasn’t abused there. I’m sure others were and I’m certain other children dealt with abuse from within their families. Since my abuse was by a Catholic priest, for me, it is necessary that I take my fight to the doorsteps of every Catholic building, until they decide to reconcile with me by removing clergy who abuse, or not. I will continue to be a thorn in their side and I will not go away. Having said that, if anyone wishes to protest a public school or daycare center where abuse has occurred, just let me know and I’ll be there with you and stand in solidarity. I will even make some really cool vinyl signs for our protest.

    You can be someone who is more likely to support the institution that has been more willing to destroy innocent lives, or you can ask me about me, and decide for yourself if what I have endured if worth my abuser being protected. In almost 3 years since I came forward about my abuse, do you know that the Church has never once asked me what they can do for me? They never once called me up and said, “Hey Rich, what can we do to make this right?” Instead, they force me to file a lawsuit because they wouldn’t stick to deals I made with them. The deals I made were only because I told them I would go public with my story and finally they gave in. But not once, have they ever kept their end of the deal, and that really pisses me off. If you say you’re going to do something, you do it! If not, you’re a liar, in my opinion.

    This is the truth; Philadelphia is Ground Zero for abuse by Catholic clergy. There is no doubt in my mind that there are hundreds, if not thousands of childhood sexual abuse victims in the city. Most, I believe, will not come forward because of the all media coverage and the known Statute of Limitation laws that protect the abusers instead of the victims. When I came forward about the abuse in early 2009, I had no idea there was an SOL on child abuse. I had, in fact, fantasies on my drive to the DA’s office in Philly, that my abuser would be charged later that day and led out of the rectory in handcuffs. When I found out I would never be about to charge anyone “criminally” I walked out of the DA’s office saddened. I don’t even remember driving home that day. I finally had the courage to speak up about what happened and the law managed to push me right back down. That is the general consensus from most abuse victims. If the law can’t and won’t protect me then why bother coming forward and embarrassing myself any further. I personally know many abuse victim who will not come forward because they are afraid that it will effect their lives more than it does today. They are afraid that without the law protecting them, they will never be able to get justice, and I guess it’s just easier to continue managing the secrets than it is to let the rabbit out of the hat and have everyone who knows you know about the abuse. It can be very humiliating.

    Our abusers didn’t care about any of this when we were kids. They didn’t care how we would turn out in life and they didn’t care who we would become. They used us for their own personal gratification and they didn’t once consider how our lives would be effected forever. They killed who we were and who we were supposed to be, and instead of ordinary people standing with us, they spit on us. My only purpose since coming forward has been the hope that I can protect current and future children from ever experiencing what happened to so many of us. Let me ask though… why do I have to be spat on, or screamed at, or insulted to protect your child?

  26. Very well said, Rich. The world must be so confusing to you. The modern day Catholic church is confusing to many of us. The Catholic congregation should stand up and say:

    – we care about children
    – we won’t tolerate child rapists in our church
    – we won’t tolerate anyone who protects child rapists in our church
    – we won’t tolerate bishops who lie to us
    – we are so sorry what happened to the victims, and we will do whatever we can to help them
    – we don’t care about money (and neither did God), so we will sell our churches and move into less elaborate real estate if we have to in order to pay for therapy for victims
    – we will sell our churches to cure hunger

    but they don’t do any of it. It’s incomprehensible.

    Instead, they say:

    – ignore it
    – look over there instead (and when you actually do look, its not nearly as bad anywhere else, by the way, and no one in history has had the cover up the Catholic church has)
    – we’ll follow our bishops, no matter how many times they show they are purposely breaking God’s own laws
    – let’s fight every victim as hard as we can
    – we have to protect our property and money above all

    The devil owns the Catholic church and it’s congregation. He’s managed to change their values and standards and made them strong in their conviction against the standards of Catholicism. He’s smart.

    The world needs you and I and a handful of others to fight against them, and eventually God and good will win out, and you will have a life that will make everyone proud.

  27. Thank you for your reply, Susan. Do you have a site with HARD evidence that this belief is HARD science and not the psuedo science I have found?

    I read too that they now think murder’s have a biochemical difference as well…the same belief for homosexuals. What’s next, a thief, an adulterer? I don’t think God would have destroyed Sodom and Gemorah because the poor folks had a biochemistry problem…do you?

    I think this is man’s attempt to excuse man’s sinful choices and deny God.

    And I think a lot of people would rather believe it a “brain” problem than deal with the fact of real evil.

    Here are a couple of comments from pyscology sites. I guess we have to be suspect of SHORTER men, who are perhaps not very SMART, LEFT HANDED, had a baseball to the head, and failed some grades….or…”their deviant behaviour…. is caused by some biochemical level scientists aren’t even aware of.”

    “Height may point to a biological basis for pedophilia, according to new research released by the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health (CAMH). The study found that pedophilic males were shorter on average than males without a sexual attraction to children

    This study adds to previous research from this team that found pedophiles have lower IQs, are three times more likely to be left-handed, failed school grades significantly more frequently, and suffered more head injuries as children.

    “Swerdlow argues that the case legitimizes the question of whether some sociopathic behavior is caused by brain disorders.

    “Will we one day find that people perform criminal acts because they have some kind of damage or abnormality to this part of the brain?” Swerdlow asked.” From Putting The Brain On Trial

    1. I have a healthcare background and studied this in college.I have read alot and wrestled with all types of views .I also have my own personal experience with my husband and other friends. I struggled with ” is this mainly a sickness” then where does free will and responsiblity come in? I have finally come to the conclusion that the attraction is a sickness but the action of molesting a child is not only a sickness but a crime and a sin because it is putting ones own satisfaction above the good of another causing emotionally as well as physical trauma. If we were talking about serial murder I don’t think there would as much discussion as to treatment and safety. A serial murder would be put in jail and kept away from the genreal population. Why do we downplay the physical , emotional, spiritual, financial damgae of child abuse vicitms just because we don’t have a physical corpse?

  28. I believe in the Church of Baseball. I’ve tried all the major religions and most of the minor ones. I know things. For instance there’s 108 beads in a Catholic’s rosary and 108 stitches in a baseball. When I found that out I gave Jesus a chance, but things didn’t work out between us. The Lord laid too much guilt on me. You see… there’s no guilt in baseball and it’s never boring. It’s a long season and you’ve got to trust it. I’ve tried them all, I really have, and the only Church that truly feeds the soul, day in and day out, is the Church of Baseball.

    1. If you like curveballs and screwballs, come back to this Catholic church. The congregation is out in left field, and bishops play in foul territory throughout the entire game. Bishops get the rules from God, but they are the umpires, so they change the rules. Priests get an unlimited amount of strikes. The fans in the congregation don’t understand the game, so they just cheer for whatever the bishops do. Of course, most of the season ticket holders are leaving, so the future of the game is in jeopardy.

  29. Patrick and Rich, I love you guys, you make my day, I am grateful that I have never lost my sense of humor!!

  30. Beth said: “I have a healthcare background and studied this in college.I have read alot and wrestled with all types of views .”

    Yes, well, I also studied this in college and they teach exactly as I posted…psychobabble, by people who do not often believe in God. Just like they still use Freud, who recanted most of his theories before he died.

    Beth said: ” I struggled with ” is this mainly a sickness” then where does free will and responsiblity come in? I have finally come to the conclusion that the attraction is a sickness but the action of molesting a child is not only a sickness but a crime and a sin because it is putting ones own satisfaction above the good of another causing emotionally as well as physical trauma.”

    Beth, why not look at this from a different perspective and see what you think.

    I have a theory. I think they have shown that homosexuals DO have something different in their brains. But I believe the ACTIVITY causes the difference, the difference does not cause the activity. The activity was there FIRST, then the brain difference FOLLOWS. Same here with Pedophiles, priests or whomever.

    Mental processes CAN cause physiological differences. Stress is all mental, but it can cause a very physical heart attack. Biochemical changes occur.

    Just another way to look at this picture, which sure makes the word of God make sense to me, when He does not talk about mental problems…but sin problems. Also…here is something else interesting from a Christian view point, and that is that the word of God tells us to take our thoughts captive!

    2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

    When people nourish bad thoughts they build and become stronger and stronger temptations, until they begin to put them into practice. I think the practice itself may definitely cause the biochemical changes. They mess their own physiological, spiritual selves up, and are as accountable as a cold blooded murderer.

    What do you think?

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