Do some priests remain silent on child sex abuse because of their own sins?
Click here to watch NBC 10 report: “Priest Charged With Patronizing a Prostitute,” March 2, 2012
Do some priests remain silent on child sex abuse because of their own sins?
Click here to watch NBC 10 report: “Priest Charged With Patronizing a Prostitute,” March 2, 2012
Catholics4Change 
Susan, this is getting discouraging. I am going to take a dinner break from bad priests before I lose my appetite.
I am suffering from indigestion too..after dinner.
I think the cited article is a sad one, indeed pathetic. But at a time when the whole world is focussed on Philly…the notion of some poor pathetic priest hitting up an undercover vice cop for sex and drugs…just doesn’t cut it…..
I think it was not up to C4C’s normal post choices.
I generally agree with your emphasis on our keeping our eye on the abuse ball, especially since I frequently violate your rules. But it may be good occasionally to address an issue like this one that reminds of what else is also going on badly with today’s priests, beyond the pedophiles.
We all know this goes on and that it is materially different than child abuse. But since it is a Philly priest that is getting media focus concurrent with Lynn’s case, it may be beneficial to ponder it briefly.
I expect Susan and Kathy see it similarly. The last thing they need is to have to start tracking priest philanderers.
Joan, Please type Rolling Stone into our search bar. That article will explain why this post was relevant. There is a culture of secrecy within the priesthood. The article posed the idea that that secrecy is created by sexual indiscretions of all types but causes priests to turn a blind eye to child sex abuse for fear of their own exposure. Specifically, it suggests that Bevilacqua’s indiscretions may have played into the cover up.
Susan, read the Rolling Stones article, all five pages of it…..thought it was a stunning reprise of the entire Lynn scene….I didn’t get the sexual indiscretions take so much as the highly detailed horrendous history of ‘events’….Actually it’s a terrific read….very glad I did!
Joan and Susan: I am not sure if you are aware that the Rolling Stone author benefited from C4C blogs as she wrote her Philly AD article. I know that because I sent her them, and she thanked me fo so doing.
As many have expressed here, blogging at C4C has its own rewards, but the blogs also move others to think and act.
Susan, after Joan pays my legal bill, I am sending you and Kathy my publicist bill.
Seriously, participating here has mostly been a labor of love, except of course when someone disagrees with me. LOL
Not surprised Jerry that you had your hand in that article. It was the best reprise I’ve seen…..and glad Susan pointed it out.
I liked the author’s personalizing style…..hope others (with time) will read it!
Susan,
Your reference to the “culture of secrecy” reminded me of a man I know who once was in the seminary. Several years ago, he told me such outlandish stories of what went on in the seminary, that I thought for certain he was fabricating them. Well, my eyes have been opened, and I’m realizing maybe he was telling the truth. His stories were very consistent with others that I have read.
It sickens me. I agree with the others that this life of celibacy is not natural. The Church has allowed Protestant married ministers who have converted to RC to be a priest and remain married. I am hoping this is a test run for the possibility of married priests in the future. I can’t help to think of how many good men there are who would make a fabulous priest but can’t just because they also chose to be married. Surely this would help increase vocations and help weed out some that shoudn’t be there.
Joan I think this article speaks to what Susan mentioned. It was written last summer -an inside look at some of the going ons in the AD. http://www.phillymag.com/articles/catholics_in_crisis_sex_and_deception_in_the_archdiocese_of_philadelphia/
Kathy is right, I meant to write Philadelphia Magazine vs. Rolling Stone. But both are worthwhile reads. But the former covers what I meant by secrecy.
This must be my day for ‘assigned reading’….
I just finished the 8 pages of Kathy’s ,link which is also an ‘insiders look’ at the AD….
Not a very pretty picture! Much of it I was aware of but both articles clear up any confusion your readers might have about the administration of this poor Archdiocese.
I personally recommend them both, with a slight preference for Rolling Stones…
I am 50/50 with you on this one Joan. I think it speaks to the betrayal and complete frustration with the hypocrisy -here we go again-what else could happen in Philly. When I first saw this article on philly.com ,my heart skipped a beat because I thought a priest had been arrested for sexual solicitation of a child. Then I realized when reading the article -it was just plain old run of the mill solicitation of a prostitute. What amazed me was my feeling of relief -this article which would have been explosive 20 years ago -now made me feel relieved because it didn’t involve a child.
I just can’t stand the hypocrisy anymore -it really is too much.
This type of thing is going to happen, as the lifestyle they’re expected to live is unnatural. If I were writing the catechism (just like the old men in Rome), I would call it “intrinsically disordered.”
No, male priests being married would not stop the problems completely, but a wife would certainly put these guys on a shorter leash.
An even better solution to the evils within the priesthood is to start ordaining married male and female priests.
Abolish the RC Boys’ Club; it’s intrinsically disordered !
I hope no one thinks this is his first time with a lady of the evening
I love what Hank wrote under the article, “Was he going to use birth control”? Sometimes I really appreciate the humor on this blog, it all helps! Thank God it wasn’t a child.
A priest who makes the Catholic church ….. look better.
Yes Patrick; this is certainly a step-up.
Very troubling. With some many eyes on the Philly AD, he still can’t control his actions. This gets worse every day.
I agree with Vicky though…thank God it wasn’t a child.
You’re crazy if you think stuff like this doesn’t happen all the time in all Catholic diocese, but there is pressure to hide it. If the cop was Catholic, or if the cop didn’t have children, the priest or others might have tried to tell the cop to let the priest go to avoid scandal, and many Catholic cops would have followed the advice of a priest or his bishop (on the phone), etc, etc.
Think about how bold this priest was:
– this week, they find a document that proves conspiracy to hide 35 known pedophile priests since 1994, (involving at least 4 conspirators – Lynn, Bevilacqua, Cistone, & Molloy)
– trial going on to imprison just a few of these pedophiles (and not even the worst of the Philly 35″)
– state still reeling from horror of Penn State scandal, even though the Philly Catholics were at least 35 times worse
– at least two other Catholic employees (including an athletic director) in the Philly area this year have been caught in child sex cases in the last few months
Regardless, no “lock down” in this freak fraternity – no need to do business differently than usual. Just go get some drugs and another street hooker.
(Editor’s note the slow students – this .. probably .. wasn’t .. his first time. I’m guessing it was a regular event, although apologists will say it was his first time ever).
God is trying to make this easy for even the dumbest Catholic – this isn’t God’s church.
This is a pathetic story, amidst a pathetic mess – I feel bad for all involved,…. but Patrick O’malley.. your last line’s just too funny! lol!
Dear Patrick and Jerry,
You two posters are usually the most vocal critics of priestly behavior. While I certainly don’t condone and form of abuse, especially abuse of innocent children and any coverups, I would respectfully ask that you refer to the Gospel to determine whether you are able to throw the first stone.
Joe B, thank you for recognizing that. I hope I am and will always be a vocal critic of all priestly behavior that involves either sexually abusing children or remaining silent when a confrere does it.
I don’t know if Jesus was married and had children, the NT is silent, which suggests he probably did. But he certainly knew some children, including likely some sexually abused ones.
The dominant Greek speaking elite in Galilee, whom Jesus met often, were surely aware of the strong Greek “man/boy” pedophile ideology praised by some prominent earlier Greek philosophers.
So Jesus several times told us to protect children, implicitly from child abuse among other evils, or else!
It is not about throwing stones. It is about shielding defenseless children from predatory clerics’ “stones”.
I have 4 young grandchildren in Bevil Devil and arch-shredder Cullen’s Allentown diocese. I am not going to wait for a cleric’s stone to hit them or rely on inauthentic apologist members of the Old RCC Boys Club like you to defend them.
As I said to you earlier, Anathema Sit.
Joe B, Your last slick reply to Kathy just proves your are inauthentic.
You give four paragraphs to challenging C4C’s noting the arrest for drugs and soliciting of a local priest, but only give a toss-away phrase that you were “disappointed” by a cardinal and two bishops burying evidence relating to 35 suspected predator priests who likely went on to cumulatively abuse many dozens of defenseless Philly children.
Who do you think you are fooling?
Your recommended solution, kneel down and pray. I am all for prayer, but not in lieu of action as well.
My solution is (1) prosecute any and all clerics who either abused children or abetted the abuse, (2) shun and shame all clerics until they condemn the abuse, finger the abusers, and comfort the survivors, and (3) stop all financial support of the hierarchy.
Jerry, Your statement about your grandchildren touched me very much. My father died when I was 18 -he never had the chance to meet his grandchildren. I do know that he would be passionate about protecting children just as you are . The “we are all sinners” logic would not hold up with him -that I know for sure. Your grandchildren are lucky to have you.
Joe B is just quoting from the Catholic playbook of hypocrisy. If anyone says anything about a priest or Catholic doing anything bad,
– “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”
– “Judge not lest you be judged”
– God forgives everyone for everything
However, when Catholics are fighting birth control or gays or anything else, they get to judge and cast stones.
Most importantly, in this case, I wouldn’t do anything because this priest was already stoned…..
Joe B? The priest was the one to cast the first stone when he raped me in the boys bathroom at school. So can I criticize unlimitedly now?
Victim4Justice,
I have been wondering how you are doing? I think alot about things you have said in the past.
I’m doing okay. I was taking care of my Mom for about 7 months and I really didn’t have much time to be involved in anything else. My Mom just passed away on Tuesday morning though. So at some point I’m going to start getting involved again, only more devoted to the cause of “stopping the Catholic Church from creating more people like me.”
Rich, I have missed you and your comments. How have you been doing?
I miss your perspective, insights, and experience.
I’m okay, SW. I tried posted a comment to this topic but it’s “awaiting moderation.” Fr. Pat McCormick physically and verbally attacked me last year outside of St. Tim’s while I was there protesting. I’ve talked about it before on this site.
Sorry Rich,
I must have been posting at the same time you were.
I’m sorry about your Mom.
I’m glad to hear you will be back.
Rich, I think I remember you sharing that. I didn’t realize it was this priest.
Well, well, well…
Rich,
I am so sorry to hear about your Mom. What a gift you were to her, especially over the past 7 months.
My deepest sympathy to you and yours.
Hadit
Rich, I am so sorry to hear about your Mom. As others have said, I too think about you often. I remember the incident last year,but did not know it was this same priest. You commented the very night that the altercation happened,I remember it so well. Well what can I even say now knowing it was this same priest. Karma, fate-nothing seems to be able to describe it.
Rich I went back and found the comment you left last April about your encounter with Fr McCormick -is it okay with you if I repost it here? Also I am sending you an email -check your inbox.
You have my prayers and sympathy for your family. Glad to see you back here.
Yes, you can repost what I wrote back then.
Rich, I am very sorry for your loss. You are always welcome here, where you have already given us so much.
Rich,
I buried my dad two years ago……I am very sorry for your loss. Your mom was very lucky to have you take care of her. I remember the incident you are talking about also…….maybe this post was meant to be……strange how it all fits together. I am glad to hear from you. I understand the responsibilties of taking care of a parent and that should come first but will be glad to here your voice on this blog because it did and does make a difference.
So sory to hear it, V4J.
Hey joe b, I can throw stones and if you get in the way the may get a lump. When the rcc and the morons that apologize for their actions wise up is when I will put down my wheelbarrow of stones ! To use the gospel because the postings here hurt your feelings is too bad, how do you think the VICTIMS FEEL ?
JoeB , You refer to it as throwing the first stone. I think of it as pointing out hypocrisy -and in many cases crime .I have a question for you JoeB. The promise you referred to of the priests to their Bishop -you were so upset thinking Fr Wintermyer broke his by speaking out. But when Bevilaqua is accused of shredding documents -this priest now arrested for soliciting prostitution- weren’t they in fact breaking their promise to their higher ups by committing crimes? Why no input on that? Do you feel the same way about murderers Joe ? Are you saying that you have never had an opinion about someone who committed a heinous act that harmed another human being? No different here -many children were horribly harmed.
Joe I don’t worship any fellow man -nor are we supposed to -it has along the way been sometimes twisted into that.
Hi Kathy,
Thanks for your reply. The Catholic Church is often, rightfully and thankfully called the ‘Refuge of Sinners’. All of us (clergy and laity alike) then have fallen short and need the help of the Church for the forgiveness of our sins. Have we all not been affected by Original Sin? The only human being not so afflicted is the BVM. We need to extend Christian Charity and forgiveness to all if we hope to be saved ourselves.
Furthermore, I don’t think that it serves any worthwhile purpose to chastise this latest priest for his alleged attempt to solicit a prostitute, especially since this blog was ostensibly created to treat clergy / child abuse issues.
Why was this incident ever posted anyway???
This particular priest will be tried in the criminal justice system and by the church authorities, and I’m sure he’s in great emotional anguish today.
And no, I wasn’t upset about Father Wintermeyer, just very disappointed as I am about the alleged shredding, abuse narratives and coverups in Philadelphia.
A priest once said in a sermon,..’when in doubt ASAP’ – Always Say A Prayer. I would respectfully suggest more prayerful activities. Why not give everything to God when you go to bed as He will be up all night.
Joe if I thought giving everything to God nightly would help victims and protect children -then that would be the easiest and greatest plan in the world. I would suggest you contact the Archdiocese and suggest the same advice to them -they can fire the attorneys and PR people -give it all to God and wake up the next day willing to tell the truth and protect children. I wish you success with that phone call.
Joe, people on this blog pray…they also act!
Joe B., those on the outside of the catholic church call the laity, “Complacent Catholics.”
Your suggestion to simply pray about this gives weight to the label they give you. Complacency will perpetuate this nightmare. If you don’t want your children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren raped by priests, you’ll have to do a whole lot more than pray.
Susan,
I really don’t see the purpose of including the reference about the priest accused of soliciting a prostitute on this blog, which I thought was focused on protecting our children from clerical abuse. All this did – in my opinion – was to generate additional wisecracks toward our priests – not very kind! But it did generate many posts.
Kathy,
I deferentially objected to Fr. Wintermeyer criticizing his superiors and the Holy Father – that (in my opinion) was uncalled for. With regard to Cardinal Bevilacqua’s alleged document shredding activities, I guess we’ll have to wait to the hear the testimony and what actually transpires in court. Why conjecture at this point? Everything should come out in the wash then, right?
Jerry,
I’m not trying to fool anyone. But, I agree with you on one point (at least), and that is offering comfort and aid to those who have actually suffered abuse. That must be a terrible cross to carry. I must admit, though, that I had to chuckle for a moment about your impertinent, but clever ‘Bevil devil’ comment.
I have three grand children myself and – like yourself – want them to be protected from any such trauma, be it at the hands of a clergyman, teacher, coach, etc.
Patrick,
I don’t think that I’m quoting form any ‘Catholic Playbook’, but from my heart, and I don’t regard myself as a hypocrite. All I was trying to say is that we have ALL fallen short of the Glory of God and need His help.
When a man decides enters the seminary, he is subjected to a very rigorous formation process consisting of prayer, educational and recreational activities, all of which are designed to equip the new priest with the skill set he will need to get started into his particular ministry. This process can last from 8 to 10 years – it’s a significant chunk of time.
Once ordained, the new priest has to maintain this equilibrium and continue to grow in wisdom and grace by cooperating with the Holy Spirit. A small number priests apparently falter due to (I assume) human frailty and commit serious sins.
A priest should be a selfless healer, an intermediary between God and His people. If we cannot find it in our hears to forgive our truly contrite priests THEIR sins, then who of us can really expect God’s forgiveness for OUR transgressions?
Don’t forget that – sooner or later – each of us is going to need the help and comfort of a priest to prepare us to face Almighty God. Let’s pray that we all have one available to us. Thankfully, our God is rich in mercy.
Joe B, My question regarding this news was posed above the link. Do some priests remain silent on child sex abuse because of their own sins? That the connection. Huber’s Philadelphia Magazine article this past summer posed the same question. Why do you think they remain silent? I’m sure there is more than one reason. Child rape should be worthy of a reaction from priests – if not a solution.
Joe -“forgive our truly contrite priests” -well they are lawyered up. As for Fr McCormick, he informed the AD that he was arrested for a DUI so I don’t know that he has gotten to the point of even acknowledging his sin/crime.I always learned the first part of asking forgiveness was acknowledging the wrongdoing that occurred.
To me the most important thing that came from Susan posting this article was Rich reminding us about the encounter he had with him last year.
You seem to have a keen understanding of the difficulties/struggles of priests-what about the difficulties that our victims face? life long struggles?
Joe B,
You play right from the Catholic church playbook, lying to protect your pedophile priests. Its not a “small” number by any means, unless you are trying to minimize the damage. At this point, I could write your posts for you.
The number is 4,392 known “Jerry Sanduskys” in the Catholic priesthood, in the United States alone. And those are just the ones they know about. Its probably 3 to 5 times that number since most rapes in general (and child rapes in particular) don’t get reported.
Its worse worldwide. Want to find out how bad it is in Ireland? Watch 60 Minutes tomorrow night.
As for the rigors and boot camp of the priesthood, I’m not buying it. Learn 10 commandments, What Would Jesus Do, and a 45 minute mass you can read every Sunday.
Don’t want to do it? Quit. You get to go to the same heaven. Rape a child? You’re going to hell. No forgiveness. I don’t care how Catholics interpret the bible. Jesus never said a 3rd party could forgive sins. Catholics invented confession, making people think priests could forgive you for sins you commit to others. That’s an interpretation, not the truth.
Just like your interpretation of the word “small”.
Joe, Susan posed a question about priests remaining silent about child sex abuse,( a crime) because of their own sins, she posted the timely arrest of a priest, picked up by the vice squad, for a misdemeanor, to make her point. I think her further point is that priests may not identify fellow predators priests, because of their own sinful history. Please note I did not say their own ‘criminal’ history.
You have posted extensively about priest’s ‘sins’, and the forgiveness thereof.
It seems to me that a distinction between crime and sin needs to be made. C4C exists because of the crimes of sexual abuse by clergy against children and the pervasive institutional cover up of such behaviour and the knowingly passing on of abusers.
These are CRIMES…they are the business of the courts, Grand Juries, the criminal justice system, Child Protective Services, Judges, prosecutors, defense counsel, criminal trials. Decisions are made by juries, if convicted, felons go to jail!
Right now in Philadelphia, for the first time in the United States, an ‘episcopal manager’ is to be tried for Child Endangerment and Conspiracy relative to his behaviour when managing priests. Two priests will be tried with him for rape. Subsequently, two more trials one a teacher, the other a priest will be tried in separate trials for rape.
Grand Jury reports for 2005 and 2011 detailing these matters in nauseating fashion can be read at the top of this page, in the RESOURCES link.
Edgar A. Guest
I’d rather see a sermon
than hear one any day;
I’d rather one should walk with me
than merely tell the way.
The eye’s a better pupil
and more willing than the ear,
Fine counsel is confusing,
but example’s always clear;
And the best of all preachers
are the men who live their creeds,
For to see good put in action
is what everybody needs.
I soon can learn to do it
if you’ll let me see it done;
I can watch your hands in action,
but your tongue too fast may run.
And the lecture you deliver
may be very wise and true,
But I’d rather get my lessons
by observing what you do;
For I might misunderstand you
and the high advice you give,
But there’s no misunderstanding
how you act and how you live.
Patrick, imagine with all the notoriety about the behavior of scandalous priests around the WORLD, not just the USA, this poor priest throws caution, wisdom and common sense out the window and is overcome by the temptation to satisfy his sexual urges. Do you get the sense that seminaries around the country have failed to prepare men adequately for life in the priesthood? The issues of psycho-sexual development, self-awareness, boundaries and emotional development have largely been ignored and under-used by our Church. With all the advances in psychology we sadly cling to the idea that prayer and penance will prevent one from falling into sin. Unfortunately, this Church continues to ignore the depth of the emotional and physical needs of the average human being. Not all are called to the charism of celibacy and to believe otherwise is pure fallacy.
I didn’t see your comment Leo, but I see you touched on part of mine. What I would add is, the junior seminaries have had a role to play in formation, they are too young to contemplating life decisions, We know how close most son’s are to their mothers and that helps crosing over to adolescents. At the moment, the Francsican Provincial in Australia, has a request for a Rescript of Vows on his desk, by a friar [who was 13 years old when entering J.S] which began with his predecessor, doing so much for the family, and when becaming unwell prepared to travel to meet with the Apostolic Nunciatre to have it granted expeditiously.
The present one has wiped his feet on the request which could be still granted posthumously.
All connection to the father has been removed from the Baptism Register, remaining on the Birth and now Death Certificate.
The rights accorded by universal law and acknowledged, refused in part, by church law with the hard heartedness of this Father Provincial to preserve the face of the Order.
Moral of the story – should have given up drugs and street hookers for Lent.
…dark Irish humor. Patrick you’ll be the death of a blog editor.
Actually,think Patrick is absolutely right! My question…why are we fussing with this pathetic issue?
Joan I was wondering the same thing ………how does this fit in with C4C’s other blogs but I did read an article before that different priests affairs etc with adult males or females lead to a culture which turned a blind eye to any type of sexual activity. I just don’t see how they can put child sexaul abuse in to the same category as a relationship bwt two consenting adults. Child sexual abuse is abuse of power and so wrong on so many levels.
Beth I think we posted an article a long time ago on C4C that disussed what you mention. Priests not reporting fellow priests because of their own indescretions and lumping abuse of children into the general “sin” category such as having affairs with consenting adults. Child sex abuse is a sin and a crime
I’m sad about this because I like Fr. Pat, and that I can’t imagine the overwhelming desperation from celibacy he must have had to cause him to drive down to Kensington. I suppose he can’t just go to a bar and hook up with someone because he’d be recognized as a priest. Doesn’t mean he would touch a child or condone it by any means. He’s a frail human being obviously struggling with celibacy.
Anon, Your approach seems very Christ-like to me. This isn’t about casting judgment. It’s about finding solutions to very troubling issues. The truth is, at least a few have ended up at bars. Priests face all sorts of temptations – just like everyone else. They are human. Recognizing this is important. I don’t think the strain of celibacy leads to child sex abuse. I’m concerned about a culture of secrecy that helps it go undetected.
Thanks.Susan I am also “concerned about a culture of secrecy that helps it go undetected”.
Shame he couldn’t be a man.
Make a decision that you want to have sex with women, leave the priesthood, get a real job, et cetera. Catholics can be so apologetic about their priests, and have set the bar so low that they would never expect them to just do the right thing.
P.S. you have a very common name
Anon, I also cannot imagine the desperation that would lead someone to soliciting sex on the street. I am in no way equating child sex abuse and soliciting prostitution. I thank God that it was an undercover cop because having worked as a social worker in Philly for many years,I am well aware that some of these “ladies of the evening” are actually minors,often runaways escaping abusive situations at home.
Priests obviously are human and face temptation just like everyone else.However it in no way excuses bad or criminal behavior. He shouldn’t not go to a bar and hook up with someone because he would be recognized as a priest -he shouldn’t do it because he IS a priest.
I will bet you think this is the first time he paid a hooker ? How did he know where to find a friend ?
Soliciting a prostitute (undercover cop thank God) and telling her to bring a joint. John, I thought the same thing -with all eyes on the Archdiocese and now this. The priest that baptized my niece was arrested just a few days after the baptism for soliciting a prostitute at a rest stop.
I am sure there are some priests who knows …… maybe even many that are quiet on child sexual abuse because of their own sins A few articles have even stated Archbishop Bev. had a special relationship with a woman. I also think priests are under enormous pressure right now maybe justly so. They have to deal with the archdiocese and the laity directly. Some are caught in a culture and / or position they never would have dreamed of years ago when they were ordained much of this is due to clericialism. Yes he sinned and I can understand the need for humor with all the madness going on but deep down I really don’t take any joy in it………I think it is all very sad. I am glad it didn’t involve a child either. I just think that no matter ones sins it should not keep them from doing the right thing now.
Beth, who can find joy in another’s misery. But a priest is a spiritual leader who can cause misery.
If he can’t handle all the pressures (I doubt I could), he should resign. He has a good education, few if any student loans, no dependents, etc. He should move on with his life. If enough of them did, the Chaput’s of the world would have to face reality and permit married and women priests. There is nothing in scripture ot theology stopping this.
The guys at the top, like bishops and cardinals, don’t have to cruise to find partners. The lowly priests are often just disposable people for the hierarchs, but there is little stopping many of these priests from just resigning.
Parishioners do not benefit from unhappy and frustrated priests.
I agree. Actually we had married priests in the past I am not against that. I think they should live with intergrity in their vocation just as married people should be faithful. This could have been a one time thing or a regular occurence. I am all for honestly and openess not lying and sneaking around.
Jerry why would he/they resign. The spurious brother/sister relationships keep them living a double life, with all the perks!!!
I think it might be getting to the point that we have more priests on “administrative leave” than those actually doing their job.
I’m quite sure this is one of the reasons a clergyman, wanting his heir, to take precedence over his religious vows seeking a Resript [Canon 1139] had no support.
Why should he have had the joy of fatherhood, legitimately.
If you don’t think there are still plenty of people subtly covering up for the Catholic church, note that the Philadelphia versions of the story avoid the word “Catholic”.
To Catholics in Philadelphia, it is obvious that he was a Catholic priest. However, this won’t be picked up as “Catholic” news in Google searches because the word is missing. The cover up artists are getting smarter.
I noticed that, too.
That’s interesting………thanks for pointing that out………
But I did google his name and this news went national.
That’s not the point. No Catholic follower would have been googling his name.
The point is that if someone is interested in “Catholic news”, they Google the word “Catholic”, and if you don’t want them to see this article, you eliminate the word and they never see it.
Patrick -my point was when I googled his name -the story had gone national -meaning it was on various news websites across the U.S. If you are visiting their news site for whatever reason-you will see the story.
Kathy, Patrick’s separate point, I think, is that Chaput apparently has media consultants who fine tune some “key words” in stories to reduce their being linked to the Philly AD, for example, in Google search results.
Chaput is like the Dutch boy trying to use his fingers to plug the leaks in the “truth dyke”. Wonderfully, the internet dykes have more leaks than Chaput’s consultants have fingers; C4C being one of the major “leaks”.
What do you mean by media consultants? If this story came about because the AD issued a stated alerting people to what happened-then I understand how the PR and wording would come into play. This story was uncovered by the local media -criminal record of arrest -to the local media.
Having been involved in this locally for the past year-I don’t think the local news media is in the back pocket of the AD -maybe a few people -not many. Even the report that was posted on abuse tracker -was from a local news station that hadn’t been providing much coverage and recently kicked up a notch.
The point is that this story was about yet another Catholic incident with another Catholic priest, but whoever was involved in writing the story did’t put the word “Catholic” in there. You can tell me that was an accident, but I’m guessing it was a Catholic (and an apologist). The bonus is that it didn’t show up nationally for people googling for “Catholic” news, and every Catholic news site now has an excuse for not publishing it.
This is the 2012 version of “shredding”.
Headlines will often say “minister” “teacher” ” “official” and you have to read the article for identifying info.
Patrick- Not in the headline but in the first sentence of the article. That is how I am used to seeing things – not everything identified in every headline. My God you bring put the stubborn Irish woman in me 😉
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/crime&id=8566999
Good Lord, it just never ends. What are these men thinking with all that is going on with the scrutiny of the priests in Philadelphia right now? I am just so disgusted with this behavior…
They are not thinking at all or they just don’t care………
They are entitled and beyond reproach. Who are we to question the actions of a priest!?!
Does no one have any self control anymore? Like others have said, with the eyes of the world on the AD, ya think he would have had a little bit of intelligence and maturity to show some restraint.
i would like to know which parish he will be sent to ,possibly las vegas where they wont arrest him for his transgressions.i wonder if chaput will have a comment on this?he has been silent on the other problems .
I think this article is a perfect example of why priests don’t expose those who prey on kids: they don’t want their own shortcomings to be exposed. Theirs is a culture that prohibits normal relationships and therefore encourages deceitful, furtive ones.
Please remember, too, prostitution is not a victimless crime. The vast majority of women who work in the sex trade were sexually abused in childhood, and a good number of them were trafficked into prostitution while they were young teens. It’s a shame this man saw fit to exploit a woman instead of choosing to leave the priesthood and have normal, respectful relationships.
Janet, We’ve just had a Senate inquirey into forced and illegal adoptions of unmarried mothers.
You mentioned the culture that prohibits normal relationshipstherefore encouraging deceitful, furtive ones.
On record but not singled out by anyone else but myself, was the establishment of a facility in place by a past Archbishop of Melbourne, for women “in situations created by clergy”, unable to maintain their vows, still utilized into the early 1980’s by consecutive members of the hierarchy.
Why would there be any respect towards children.
Thanks for bringing home those points.
Janet – Amen You summed it up perfectly when you stated “It’s a shame this man saw fit to exploit a woman instead of choosing to leave the priesthood and have normal, respectful relationships.
And prostitution is not a victimless crime as you state. I agree -and stated in an earlier post that many who end up in this situation are minors or adults who were abused as some point as children .I have witnessed too many broken souls turning to a life on the street in my years as a social worker working with a vulnerable population in Philadelphia.
Poor Kathy.
Janet wrote, “It’s a shame this man saw fit to exploit a woman instead of choosing to leave the priesthood and have normal, respectful relationships.”
A man who would seek out a prostitute…literally pay for sex…is not a man who would be able to have a “normal, respectful relationship” outside of the priesthood either.
This man committed a crime. I’m looking for patterns in the handling/response to it by the AD.
“This man committed a crime.” True, it’s a misdemeanor.
“He was ordered to perform 18 hours of community service and pay $200 in fines.”
http://www.courierpostonline.com/article/20120303/NEWS01/203030317/Priest-charged-solicitation
Compared to the felons this blog deals with, his crime = Jaywalking. I bet he won’t even make it into the secret archives.
I am old enough to remember the time when indiscretions were over looked and and hidden. i.e. FDR, Eisenhower Kennedy. Because the bishops have started to play hardball [see SNAP] all Catholic clerics are now fair game… the outing, the tel taps, the DUIs, the videos have all been put in play.I predict more hierarchy hits and soon. The CIA and KGB used ‘honey pots’ of either gender to compromise targets.. still do too..
Right on FE !! The dumb arrogance of the bishops thinking they could add, to their 2,000 year effort to suppress women, a new demolition project on women’s health insurance, and that no one would respond with questions about the bishops’ phony “child protection” ploys. How stupid do they think American voters are?
How happy can the bishops be that their chief culture warriors are a Republican candidate who believes contraception should be criminalized, and Rush Limbaugh, who outrageously thinks he can silence women by calling the 98% of them who have sensibly used contraceptives, “sluts” and “prostitutes”.
I wonder what his four wives, none of whom conceived when married to him, think about his slurs?
The media attention will surely put the bishops’ child abuse cover-up conspiracy on center stage by November. Amen!
Jrry, The four wives of Rush L.. with no children show that NFP ‘works’.. he may get a papal medal soon.
Catholic people who demand and accept the celebate life for their priests and nuns are seeing the fruits of their demands. I say that CATHOLIC PEOPLE who want their spiritual leaders and guides to live unnatural lives are the ones who have created this problem. BE for real, people, we sit in the pews and we go along with the program and when it turns to dust, we wonder why. Are the men and women we ask to slave for us never to have any sinful thoughts, do any sinful actions. Their only goal should be the uplifting of those of us who come to worship.
Do we really know how these men and women live? Do we know and understand the lonely life,disconnected from reality that they have. Do we understand the pressures they endure? To we really care? All we want, I believe, is a place to go and pray, a place where everything is perfection. Let’s wake up and see what we really are asking of these men and women. And when the hierarchy wants to make it work at any price, somewho we are shocked.
I believe that the only thing we are doing here is blah blahing. Who amoung us is doing something to effeect real change..
Catholic people who demand and accept the celebate life for their priests and nuns are seeing the fruits of their demands. I say that CATHOLIC PEOPLE who want their spiritual leaders and guides to live unnatural lives are the ones who have created this problem. BE for real, people, we sit in the pews and we go along with the program and when it turns to dust, we wonder why. Are the men and women we ask to slave for us never to have any sinful thoughts, do any sinful actions. Their only goal should be the uplifting of those of us who come to worship.
Do we really know how these men and women live? Do we know and understand the lonely life,disconnected from reality that they have. Do we understand the pressures they endure? To we really care? All we want, I believe, is a place to go and pray, a place where everything is perfection. Let’s wake up and see what we really are asking of these men and women. And when the hierarchy wants to make it work at any price, somehow we are shocked.
I believe that the only thing we are doing here is blah blahing. Who amoung us is doing something to effeect real change..
Elizabeth -I have never seen any religous functioning as a ‘slave” for me -ever in 44 years.I have encountered some hard working clergy/nuns -would never say they went so far as to slave for me -nor would I want that. Do I understand their life -not really, just like they would be unable to relate to my life as a wife and mother. Do we understand the pressure they face? Probably not ,and they also have no idea the pressure many families endure on a daily basis. If they have a lonely life that is their problem -you make life what you want it to be -most of the lonely people I have encountered are lonely for a reason. You don’t have to be married with a family to have a full life . As for the Church being a place of perfection -nope never expected that either -nor did I expect it to be a place of crime against children. I
C4C spent a lot of time awhile back on the issues of clerical culture and celibacy.
If memory serves, clericalism got a thumbs down and with celibacy, there was a fair amount of support for its being ‘optional’.
I count amongst my personal friends clergy and nuns, and I do care ….and help where I can.
Elizabeth, your last point ….” And when the hierarchy wants to make it work at any price, somehow we are shocked.” definitely needs some discussion.
I really hope you are not arguing for predator passing on, clergy rape and sodomization et al. These are crimes which ruin people’s lives.
There is no justification for the Church protecting herself ‘at any price’ anytime, anywhere, ever!
Elizabeth…
It’s not the catholic people who made the “rule” that priests are to be celibate. The hierarchy did that years ago. There are a lot of things I will lay at the feet of the laity…remaining silent about the raping of their children is one. Holding them responsible for a priest’s celibacy is not.
I hope we aren’t going down the same road we’ve been before in regard to the sexual dysfunctions of the priesthood. There are many in the church that blame clergy abuse on celibacy. I’ve heard it…”If these priests were allowed to marry, then we wouldn’t have this.” NOT TRUE. Married men are the number one sexual offenders of children.
I wonder what the statistics tell us about who frequents prostitutes more often? If it’s married men, then the theory of celibacy being a contributing factor wouldn’t hold water.
Deviant behavior is deviant behavior. Pretty profound, isn’t it? There are plenty of celibate priests struggling with the unnatural demand of celibacy…and they aren’t soliciting prostitutes.
My main concern is how the hierarchy will handle this. Will they remain silent? Will they cover up? Were there signs of this type of behavior before he was caught? Blah, blah, blah…
sw -I agree. I don’t know anyone who demands priests be celibate-it is what they signed up for-not something I demanded. As for the clergy having lives of such sacrifice. Well number one if they do -again they signed up for it -no one forced them. In the last few years I have witnessed more goodness,more financial sacrifice , more basic hard work and morality from the laity than many clergy. Sorry not buying it.
The last part of Kathy’s comment really resonates with me:
“As for the clergy having lives of such sacrifice. Well number one if they do -again they signed up for it -no one forced them. In the last few years I have witnessed more goodness,more financial sacrifice , more basic hard work and morality from the laity than many clergy. Sorry not buying it.”
Like Kathy, I have witnessed incredible bravery on the part of folks. I attended a funeral yesterday where for 8 extraordinary years a wife cared for a hugely ill husband. An hour after I got home, a friend called about another death in a very similar situation. Two more deaths, today.
Life is tough, but by far the most resonate goodness I’ve seen is from the laity.
I can’t imagine how exchanging thoughts and ideas can do anything BUT effect change.
“Every revolution was first a thought in one man’s mind” (RW Emerson)
And over 7000 ‘hits’ of folks ‘exchanging thoughts and ideas’ have occurred on C4C in the last three days.
While we are doing many things -the thing we are not doing is being sheep 😉
BAAAH, BAAAH, BAAAH….. better than blah, blah, blah….!!! LOL
For many bewildered Catholics, and for a long time now, the priesthood has been a run-away train, involved in a series of serious collisions, inflicted with a host of impediments and dysfunctions, and headed toward its inevitable demise. Quite frankly, it’s shocking that hierarchical leadership has failed to adapt its ministerial structures to the modern world. Tradition demands that it pay any price to maintain patriarchy. “What,” says the modern world??? “Yikes! We don’t like patriarchy. It suffocates equality and dignity of women.” But “ah,” says the hierarchy. “We aren’t just any old patriarchy, we are a holy and sacred one. We are celibate”! (the sheep in the pews are made breathless)
Unless the priesthood is adapted to the modern world, many sectors of it and the Church will regress to pre-rational and irrational religion. The uber-conservative priest and lay groups that are active on the Catholic landscape, today, are regressive forms of Catholicism. I wish you could check out the irrational world going on at the school run by the Order of St. Pius X located near my home. They have a virtual cult going on there. In fairness, I should mention that Benedict has invested a lot of energy into getting the order in line with his uber-Catholicism as opposed their uber-uber-Catholicism. Listen to Santorum’s rendition of religion, and you’ll catch my drift. If you can stomach it, try his wife’s! There is so much disturbing and irrational Catholicism going on these days.
Unbending patriarchy seriously threatens the priesthood and the future of our Church. But, more importantly, it threatens our faith. Why does a common lay person like me have to bring that to the attention of the hierarchy? Who are you guys? And what the hell is wrong with you?
Thank you, Hadit, for your typically insightful and direct views. I have a different, but not inconsistent (I think anyway), view.
I think the pope, the curia and the bishops are driven by a lust for money and the power money buys. The hierarchy operates very similarly to Wall Street sharks I observed up close for over three decades, which is why the Vatican and Wall Street work so well together.
The hierarchy have enough wealth to preserve their fortress for awhile and to fund cults, apologists, lobbyists and lawyers to blindly support them until the cash runs out. The hierarchy won’t change voluntarily.
The hierarchy’s major blunder has been their failure to resolve the child abuse debacle promptly. This debacle will over time through prosecutions deplete the hierarchy, while many Catholics move on to worship elsewhere or differently, and be spiritually better off as a result.
Jesus will not be trumped by a group of old men in red gowns and red slippers. The slippers may have saved Dorothy and Toto, but “Rome ain’t Kansas”.
The 60 Minutes show on CBS tomorrow at 7 pm should be a preview of this, as its shows the rapid demise in a couple of decades of the Irish Church my Donegal parents thought was impregnable and eternal.
The show will feature Archbishop Martin of Dublin, who is a smooth talker and a veteran of years in the Vatican curia. My Irish journalist and survivor group contacts are not impressed with him.
The days of solving the abuse problem with Irish blarney, whether from Dublin’s Martin, or from NY’s Dolan, are over!
Jerry,
Money, power, Wall Street, sharks, the Vatican, and regal, male attire are all indigenous to patriarchy. I see it from an idealist perspective, you see it from a realist one. No matter how you look at it, the modern, moral and ethical mind perceive it all in unison as one, big, male aphrodisiac.
I wrote about Fr. patrick McCormick in the past on this forum. Last winter, while I was protesting and alerting the public of another priest, one who was listed in the 2011 Grand Jury report, while in front of St. Tim’s Parish on a Sunday afternoon, Fr. McCormick came down the church steps and confronted me. He called me a liar, among other more explicit obscenities, announced to the parishioners milling around after mass that the priest we were exposing “is innocent of all charges.” Fr. McCormick shoved me and spit in my face. He also tried to enlist parishioners to “defend their church from scum like me.” I guess I struck a chord.
He struck a chord with me too. I think Joelle Castiex hinted to me in her comment about this recent news report, when she said, “Fr. McCormick tried to shame a survivor in public when he tried to tell his story.” That was me. I should’ve filed a police report for assault. Fr. McCormick was in fact, attacking me and threatening me on public property.
After that day, SNAP contacted me and told me I was no longer welcome at any of their protests in the future. I told them I knew this guy was a nut, and I could always see someone differently, as a victim, than non-victims can. Was I wrong? I guess not.
Still I would stand my ground again.
Thank you for reminding readers of the connection. I didn’t catch it. As Kathy stated earlier, hypocrisy knows no bounds in this mess. You may never get justice or peace, but you certainly have vindication upon this news. I hope some Catholics would be as quick to offer victims their love and support as they are to offer clergy their forgiveness. There’s enough of all to go around.
Rich,
Is it too late to file a police report for assault by Fr. McCormick? Sounds like Joelle Castiex could provide testimony.
I’m perplexed by SNAP’s response at the time of the incident? In your mind, why didn’t SNAP defend you?
The ongoingness of your victimization is disturbing.
I don’t believe in SNAP. It excludes as many as it includes. Dealing with SNAP is very similar to dealing with the Catholic Church. If you want their help, you have to follow their rules. I’m an abuse victim – I follow no one.
Maybe someone should inquire some information from SNAP leadership and ask about the perpetrating priests they have covered up for and protected because they were related to SNAP leaders.
Maybe someone should ask SNAP leaders why they try to destroy others groups who try to support victims of sexual abuse, because the group doesn’t have the title of “SNAP Support Group.”
Maybe people should be asking SNAP to show us what they do with the $500,000 in donations they filed in the taxes in 2010. Nearly $250,000 of those donations are actually paid out to the only three of SNAP’s officers.
Don’t you want to know what your donations are being spent on? If we really want truth and transparency from the Catholic Church, should we victims and our organizations not be as open?
Maybe SNAP can explain why one of their leader Barbara Dorris, destroyed a support group in NYC that had been meeting for over 7 years strong.
There’s only one organization out there that actually uses its money to support victims, sometimes paying for therapy for victims, traveling expenses to and from therapy, lends money to victims so they can pay their rent, put food on the table, and gas in their cars to get to work, and that Road-to-Recovery.org (Bob Hoatson)
Maybe when SNAP explains themselves to me, and a significant amount of other victims, you won’t be so perplexed anymore.
I would’ve defended SNAP and any other organization, but when they let me down, I had to start questioning why. Now I know the reasons.
Stunned by your revelations, Rich. And I am not encouraged by Janet’s comment below from the position of a SNAP leader, although I appreciate her candor. She says that SNAP doesn’t always respect survivors who will not “tow the party line.” “Party line”? Being a survivor isn’t enough??? A survivor has to take on the political platform of a party line??? Your comment, Rich, encourages us to inquire into the organizational facets of SNAP. You say it raises red flags similar to the kind raised by the hierarchy. Is SNAP into cultish obedience? Are they only kind to obeying survivors? Will they do absolutely anything to protect its name? Is SNAP secretive, silent and not transparent? Must SNAP survivors be sheep? Are progressive survivors deemed anti-SNAP? Sorry, your revelations are in sharp contrast to so many others I have read about SNAP. Although, believe me, they were not all glowing. Don’t tell me that Janet, as a SNAP leader, can make the comment she makes below, and then feel that her work is done on the matter. What is Janet doing to change the (OMG, here we go again) “culture” of SNAP?
I don’t just walk around looking for confrontations, but if you want to know the truth about how I feel, well there it is in black and white, and I am far from being the only survivor who feels this way.
Thank you for your remarks, Rich.
Rich,
I will clarify some of the points you make about SNAP. I’ve worked with the people at SNAP, and will defend them.
You ask “how many pedophile priests have they protected”, which is a line the Catholic League uses all the time. One of the founders, David Clohessy (himself a victim), is vilified by the Catholic League and their followers for not turning in his own brother quickly enough. That’s the big mystery that you threw out, as if they are protecting dozens of them. Of course, he had no proof of his brother’s guilt, and it was his own brother. Its not like he was involved in a massive conspiracy to protect and move his brother. In my opinion, this is a cheap shot by you.
What do they do with $500,000 in donations? They have 3 full time employees. I don’t know all the details, but one founder, Barbara Blaine, makes $85,000 a year. She’s an attorney, and could make a lot more money practicing law, but she knows that very few people will fight this fight, so she takes a lot less money to do the right thing.
They have to pay for their own flights, meals, travel, et cetera. They stay in low end hotels. I’ve seen it. They have to pay their own legal fees and will probably go out of existence because the Catholic church in Kansas City is trying to dig into all of their emails and confidential documents, and whether they are proven right or wrong in court, legal fees will kill them. In my opinion, another cheap shot by you, unless you know of improprieties.
You had a bad experience with SNAP, and I don’t know the details, but you are certainly feeding the Catholic League followers with more ammunition. You didn’t give any answers about SNAP, and your “Maybe..” statements just implied that they were filled with improprieties and fraud. They’re not.
Maybe you didn’t have a good experience with them, but you’re using cheap shots trashing them with innuendo. They’re all struggling with the same struggle you have, and you should think before trashing them just because you don’t have the same style.
Victims4Justice,
“But I get no offers,
Just a come-on from the whores on 7th Avenue.
I do declare, there were times when I was so lonesome
I took some comfort there.
La la la…” – Simon and Garfunkel
Victims4Justice, you stated that “Fr. McCormick shoved me and spit in my face. He also tried to enlist parishioners to ‘defend their church from scum like me.’”
Until I read that, I was giving McCormick a pass (sort of) based upon “lonesome indiscretion.”
After what you claim he did to you, “loathsome” NOT “lonesome,” is the correct descriptor for that lowlife.
It is the quintessence deep in the guts of the fraud that is the life of many a Catholic cleric, false promises. All LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE Lies…every last bit of it, “La la la…”
Not picking up on any paricular comment, and coming into the church, as a convert with a different mentality. What I have noticed is there has never been any concerns, or voiced connections as to what the priest hears in the confessional from an earnest petitioner wanting to make a “good confession”.
I’s totaly unreasonabe to expect there to be no affect on the emotions or deep rooted psycho-sexual problems of the confessor.
In fact, the confessional can become a serious ocassion for sin.
No wonder so many have split personalities, and unfair to both.
L. Newington,
Are you saying that, in the confessional, when I confess my salacious, sexual sins, they inspire the priest to engage in his own, salacious, sexual sins?
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.
Sorry.
Shall I conduct a case study on the matter?
It’s logical, a form of addiction and you know where addictions can lead.
Fantacising may be a better word.
I recall being told by a woman who had her favorite “spiritual director”, that he “eminated an aroma”, and went into an ecstasy.
I suggested he was having an oooooo and the aromatic perfume was, well never mind.
All sounding very unhealthy to me.
Confession…..? Sure.. Send my little boy or girl into a box with a celibate man, to talk about being naughty?! Come on! It’s too laughable — Breaks every basic rule of parenting 101 and of common sense. It’s my impression that nobody goes to confession anymore, no matter how hard they keep begging us to.
My friend told me regretfully that he watched as Cudemo embraced his pre-teen daughter during her entire face-to-face confession. He just stood there and seethed as he let him do this….Which is, I guess what we’ve all done over the years, metaphorically and on a larger scale….What’s wrong with us?
From what I see,this generation of kids is so different, thanks to anti-abuse programs and raised awareness in general. They’ve been educated to spot a no-brainer like the confessional trap. They naturally debunk mystical and nonsensical beliefs as soon as they hear them. The church jig is up for most of them.
“The sheep talk bahh..ck” was the original title for this blog. We used to joke about having an underground sister publication at the CS&T.
Celebacy is not THE problem, but it is one problem. I read the responses to the story of Rev McCormick in the (Philiadelphia, I think) newspaper. Most of the people were sympathetic to that man; they did not demand that he be better than others; they seemed to see his need. Pity that most of us here don’t understand his need. I believe it was St. Augustine who did understand and accept that need–or was it St. Thomas Aquinas??
The rape of children and vulnerable adults is not THE problem, but it is a most serious problem. The cover up of crimes is not THE problem, but it is a the most serious problem. The apathy of the “faithful” is not THE problem, but it surely is a most serious problem. The financial riches of the RCC and the political power of the RCC is not THE problem but it surely is a most serious problem…
I will leave this blog with many questions. The most important one I think is: Do you know how your money is being spent???
Victims4Justice,
I’m sorry SNAP treated you that way. I know they don’t always respect survivors who won’t tow the party line. While I’m a leader with SNAP, I’m not always in agreement with them- they seem to act too much like the Catholic hierarchy at times.
Someone brought up confession- there are many cases of abuse that began in the confessional. My belief is that when Jesus said to confess your sins to one another, he meant to confess to the person you had offended or to a wise friend if to confess to the person you hurt would only increase the damage.
Janet,
In making my comment on confession, I did not mean to ignore the fact that cases of sexual abuse originated in the confessional. I know they did, and I did not intend to be insensitive to those instances of sexual abuse.
My comment was the result of the mind boggling idea that a priest’s psycho-sexual life, the health of which has been measured and questioned by innumerable scholars, psychologists and sociologists over the years, is relevant to and/or could impede and/or could threaten and/or could disgrace the sacramental life of the Church. The idea that participation in a sacrament could hurt a participant should be unimaginable, however, it is not. Often on this blog, people say, “you can’t make this stuff up.” That is exactly how I was feeling when I made my comment.
…another thought to add to my above comments about confession…. My little niece is 7(ish) and is making her first confession this month. I think parochial school parents ought to wake up and forbid this absurd practice in the grade schools.
Crystal,
I live in one of the outer parishes where a few of the priests noted in the Grand Jury report were shipped off. When my son made his first confession the priest had the children sit on his lap. He had the door open, but it made us and the children very uneasy. Years later I discovered that this man was accused of some of the most heinous crimes.
As for what am I doing to “change the culture of SNAP,” I am not wasting my time. I made numerous attempts to do just that, quietly, discreetly and behind the scenes. It was a waste of time, and I am not interested in doing any more of that. I just tell it like I see it now.