The fraternity is never going to let him make the varsity team or wear a red hat. Where does he get the gall to actually get emotional about it at the 11:00 mark?
According to those following it more closely, the Irish church had the most depraved and horrific stories of sex abuse of children – not the perfect story on 60 minutes, but the perfect storm of abuse, coverup, failure to report to civil authorities …. sound familiar? To his great credit, the Prime Minister of Ireland, in Parliament, proclaimed the failure of the local church of Ireland, as well as the Vatican authorities, who deliberately covered up the widespread abuse.
I’d like to see Obama proclaim the failure of the Catholic Church in America to deal with the sex abuse crisis, and I’d like him to proclaim it with the energy, good conscience and authority exemplified by the Prime Minister of Ireland. Then, I’d like him to ban the Pope from our land.
Hadit, I agree about what Obama should do and agree the pope should be banned from influencing US elections or start paying US taxes. He should be allowed to visit as a religious figure only.
Obama’s prosecutors are already involved in aspects of the child pornography case related to the KC priest given a pass by the KC Bishop Finn, a Rigali protege and Opus Dei member. Obama’s prosecutors are also involved in a Penn State case related to Sandusky.
In my view, that is why the pope and Rigali, Chaput, Dolan, et al. are so desparate to replace Obama, even if they have to demolish American women’s health insurance coverage to get there.
Please see my related comment, “Papal Ploy Planned in 2009”, readily accessible by clicking on at:
Joan, thanks, but Marci has told me of her position before. Her position is fine, but it doesn’t go nearly far enough. It leaves criminal cases involving failure to report abuse back with state and local prosecutors. As we have seen in Philly, Pittsburgh, Penn State, Kansas City, Boston, LA, etc., you name it, state and local prosecutors are too prone to bend to the pressure of powerful local bishops or successful football coaches.
The Feds already prosecute child pornographers, human sex traffickers of foreigners and sex abusers of college students. If the Feds can protect foreigners and college students and already protect children from pornographers, the Feds can and should protect all American children from all child sexual predators.
This is a national problem (at least) and should be prosecuted nationwide uniformly by Federal prosecutors who are less responsive to bishop pressure.
Hence, with all due respects to Marci, I think we should have a national approach to deterring child sexual abusers with a RICO type statute, like we have for deterring gangsters. It has worked well against the mob and would work well against predator priests and bishops who facilitate them.
Jerry, I d love RICO to be implemented to protect kids from abuse…and I have a very vague memory of Marci writing about it at least five or six years ago…and I think there was some problem with its application to the abuse issue….this is a very NON lawyerly set of thoughts…..and questions?
Joan, my vague recollection is Marci didn’t think the current RICO statute applied to the child abuse case. That sounds right. We are talking about making it apply, which means amending the law.
The Penn State case, the steady stream of priest cases, etc., make a major change in Federal law a more achievable goal politically. With over 100,000 plus US victims of priest abuse and still counting, it’s time to amend the law.
My hope is now that the bishops have become so visible on the contraception issue, media types, etc., will raise the issue of the bishops’ cover-up more often. It is beginning to happen slowly and the election is still eight months away.
The Vatican’s answer was to send the jolly Irish/American Dolan over to calm the waters. The Irish have been rejecting this ‘stage Irish crap’since the Quiet Man movie,
AND those Vatican folks interfered in the Sovereign affairs of Ireland, which enraged the Prime Minister. The Vatican was so offended by the PMs remarks, that they pulled the Papal Nuncio, and Ireland was so annoyed they closed their Vatican Embassy (as a cost saving issue) along with several other very obscure embassies.
There is a new Nuncio to Ireland. Ireland’s Vatican embassy is still closed.
I agree with you about the courage and boldness of Enda Kenny, the Irish PM. He has just been snubbed by Cardinal George of Chicago in apparent retaliation for his closing the Irish embassy at the Vatican in protest over the Vatican’s role in the Irish abuse scandal and for his denunciation of the Vatican’s cover-up role before the Irish parliament.
Archbishop Martin of Dublin appears sincere, but spent many years working directly for the Vatican and is part of the current corrupt system, in my view. He may also have a stake in the current power struggle going on at the Vatican in anticipation of the pope’s retirement.
On 60 Minutes tonight, he ducked putting the ultimate resonsibility for the abuse cover-up on the pope, where it clearly belongs.
If he wants to really help, Martin should resign and tell the world what he knows about the cover-up. It is nice that he visits the classroom of 8 year olds, but what is needed is accountability, not PR stunts.
For info on the snubbing of irish PM Kenny in Chicago by Cardinal George, please click on to:
I understand your criticism of Martin, but he has done the best job of any bishop I’ve heard of so far.
As for putting the ultimate responsibility for the abuse cover-up on the pope(s), I got the distinct impression that he laid it right on them, short of actually stating their names.
He’s not perfect, and he can’t do it alone. If he had the backing of his fellow bishops, together they could knock that old man in Rome right out of his chair!
drWHO13, I take your point on Martin, but I think what you are saying is he is better than the other shameful Irish bishops. In a field of moral midgets, he appears tall.
I am not expecting perfection. But Martin has been a company man for over 40 years and had to have known for decades what was going on in Ireland, but did nothing until an Irish judge put a legal gun to his head to release subpoened documents. Since he was new to the Dublin diocese, it was relatively easy for him to hand over his predecessor’s files.
His paper shuffling and tears are much too little too late. He should resign and tell us what he really knows.
Produced a study, ‘In Plain Sight’ which details abuse and torture of Irish children. Amnesty International cited the Vatican for human rights violation with regard to the protection of abused children…
The current head of Amn. Intl. Ireland in the mid-’90’s was the first Irish abuse victim to sue the Irish bishjops. I bugged him several times to get AI to speak out, showing that soccer dads can also pack some kick. Take that Crystal! LOL
P.S. To date, as far as I know, no Irish bishop has yet been prosecuted for the massive cover up conspiracy.
Jerry, I’m no apologist for the the Irish church. I read, ‘In Plain Sight’ and if we think the PA Grand Jury reports in 2005 and 2011 were bad (and indeed they are), they don’t hold a candle to ‘In Plain Sight’.
But, having said that, I thought drwho13 made some fair points. AB Martin should have spoken up way sooner. And yes, he was an ‘insider’, but the fact that he did (finally) speak up on a US nationally recognized, relatively ‘in depth’ news program, is in my view a big deal.
The notion of tears, prostration before an altar, and visiting 8 year olds, could be labeled ‘theater’.
OR it could be a very belated but sincere expression from his heart. I don’t know. But I am glad that the 60 Minutes piece, was aired.
Geez! That Archbishop talking about the 8 year-olds… that really did it for me. I was surprised to see that it choked him up. I haven’t seen anything like that ever from a Catholic priest. But, I’m not stupid enough to think he’s the Messiah just yet. Priests have let me down before.
I went to a department store one time, and I was in the kids section and I picked up a pair of pants that would probably fit a 7 or 8 year-old and I held them out in front of me and I literally panicked and freaked out and cried like a baby. It really just hit me at how small I was back then. That was really hard.
ugh…I thought archbsp. Martin’s sappy, maudlin story about asking to see what an 8 yr-old looked like, was quite a performance – and just for a moment, I thought he was gonna go all “Jimmy Swaggart” on us…
I guess he figured he’d better turn on the water works briefly for 60 Minutes.– since 88%of his Dublin audience took their popcorn and left.
– And his Mass of atonement… (where he’s lying face down on the altar) — now there was some good theater!! lol! They’re still trying though…They just don’t get that Catholic Ireland’s over.
Jerry Slevin, I’m with you about soccer dad’s! And the dynamic of the catholic “girly men” thing– I understand of course, they were just an unfortunate product of indoctrination –in which plenty of crazed Cath. women also took a leading role. I guess the reality is that the more seriously a parent takes his/her responsibility for the welfare of his/her kids, the less likely they are to be victimized in life.
When Diarmuid Martin became archbishop of Dublin, the first thing he did was release archdiocesan files to the Murphy commission. The commission had asked his predecessor Cardinal O’Connell for the files and he turned them down. After Archbishop Martin released
the files to the commission Cardinal O’Connell filed a lawsuit trying to stop him from doing
so. Archbishop Martin did not back down. After about a week or so, Cardinal O’Connell
withdrew the lawsuit. This is some background to consider on Archbishop Martin and the
fight he is in as the archbishop of Dublin.
Good story. Diarmuid Martin gets it right. Too bad we don’t have more of men like him. He’s not one of the good old boys.
That man must have intense pressure on him from his brother bishops.
The fraternity is never going to let him make the varsity team or wear a red hat. Where does he get the gall to actually get emotional about it at the 11:00 mark?
According to those following it more closely, the Irish church had the most depraved and horrific stories of sex abuse of children – not the perfect story on 60 minutes, but the perfect storm of abuse, coverup, failure to report to civil authorities …. sound familiar? To his great credit, the Prime Minister of Ireland, in Parliament, proclaimed the failure of the local church of Ireland, as well as the Vatican authorities, who deliberately covered up the widespread abuse.
I’d like to see Obama proclaim the failure of the Catholic Church in America to deal with the sex abuse crisis, and I’d like him to proclaim it with the energy, good conscience and authority exemplified by the Prime Minister of Ireland. Then, I’d like him to ban the Pope from our land.
Hadit, I agree about what Obama should do and agree the pope should be banned from influencing US elections or start paying US taxes. He should be allowed to visit as a religious figure only.
Obama’s prosecutors are already involved in aspects of the child pornography case related to the KC priest given a pass by the KC Bishop Finn, a Rigali protege and Opus Dei member. Obama’s prosecutors are also involved in a Penn State case related to Sandusky.
In my view, that is why the pope and Rigali, Chaput, Dolan, et al. are so desparate to replace Obama, even if they have to demolish American women’s health insurance coverage to get there.
Please see my related comment, “Papal Ploy Planned in 2009”, readily accessible by clicking on at:
http://ncronline.org/blogs/distinctly-catholic/gops-b-team
Jerry…I think the bishops are worried about the ‘power of the federal purse’ ie federal funding with strings attached that help prevent abuse.
December 2011, Verdict’s comments by Marci Hamilton…relative to the Sandusky matter….it’s actually very encouraging!
http://verdict.justia.com/2011/12/15/the-sandusky-case
Joan, thanks, but Marci has told me of her position before. Her position is fine, but it doesn’t go nearly far enough. It leaves criminal cases involving failure to report abuse back with state and local prosecutors. As we have seen in Philly, Pittsburgh, Penn State, Kansas City, Boston, LA, etc., you name it, state and local prosecutors are too prone to bend to the pressure of powerful local bishops or successful football coaches.
The Feds already prosecute child pornographers, human sex traffickers of foreigners and sex abusers of college students. If the Feds can protect foreigners and college students and already protect children from pornographers, the Feds can and should protect all American children from all child sexual predators.
This is a national problem (at least) and should be prosecuted nationwide uniformly by Federal prosecutors who are less responsive to bishop pressure.
Hence, with all due respects to Marci, I think we should have a national approach to deterring child sexual abusers with a RICO type statute, like we have for deterring gangsters. It has worked well against the mob and would work well against predator priests and bishops who facilitate them.
Jerry, I d love RICO to be implemented to protect kids from abuse…and I have a very vague memory of Marci writing about it at least five or six years ago…and I think there was some problem with its application to the abuse issue….this is a very NON lawyerly set of thoughts…..and questions?
Not only Obama in America, too many others countries prime ministers should have spoken up.
Australia included!
Joan, my vague recollection is Marci didn’t think the current RICO statute applied to the child abuse case. That sounds right. We are talking about making it apply, which means amending the law.
The Penn State case, the steady stream of priest cases, etc., make a major change in Federal law a more achievable goal politically. With over 100,000 plus US victims of priest abuse and still counting, it’s time to amend the law.
My hope is now that the bishops have become so visible on the contraception issue, media types, etc., will raise the issue of the bishops’ cover-up more often. It is beginning to happen slowly and the election is still eight months away.
The Vatican’s answer was to send the jolly Irish/American Dolan over to calm the waters. The Irish have been rejecting this ‘stage Irish crap’since the Quiet Man movie,
AND those Vatican folks interfered in the Sovereign affairs of Ireland, which enraged the Prime Minister. The Vatican was so offended by the PMs remarks, that they pulled the Papal Nuncio, and Ireland was so annoyed they closed their Vatican Embassy (as a cost saving issue) along with several other very obscure embassies.
There is a new Nuncio to Ireland. Ireland’s Vatican embassy is still closed.
I agree with you about the courage and boldness of Enda Kenny, the Irish PM. He has just been snubbed by Cardinal George of Chicago in apparent retaliation for his closing the Irish embassy at the Vatican in protest over the Vatican’s role in the Irish abuse scandal and for his denunciation of the Vatican’s cover-up role before the Irish parliament.
Archbishop Martin of Dublin appears sincere, but spent many years working directly for the Vatican and is part of the current corrupt system, in my view. He may also have a stake in the current power struggle going on at the Vatican in anticipation of the pope’s retirement.
On 60 Minutes tonight, he ducked putting the ultimate resonsibility for the abuse cover-up on the pope, where it clearly belongs.
If he wants to really help, Martin should resign and tell the world what he knows about the cover-up. It is nice that he visits the classroom of 8 year olds, but what is needed is accountability, not PR stunts.
For info on the snubbing of irish PM Kenny in Chicago by Cardinal George, please click on to:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/colum-kenny/colum-kenny-kenny-may-envy-the-heros-welcome-given-to-cosgrave-3038829.html
Jerry,
I understand your criticism of Martin, but he has done the best job of any bishop I’ve heard of so far.
As for putting the ultimate responsibility for the abuse cover-up on the pope(s), I got the distinct impression that he laid it right on them, short of actually stating their names.
He’s not perfect, and he can’t do it alone. If he had the backing of his fellow bishops, together they could knock that old man in Rome right out of his chair!
drWHO13, I take your point on Martin, but I think what you are saying is he is better than the other shameful Irish bishops. In a field of moral midgets, he appears tall.
I am not expecting perfection. But Martin has been a company man for over 40 years and had to have known for decades what was going on in Ireland, but did nothing until an Irish judge put a legal gun to his head to release subpoened documents. Since he was new to the Dublin diocese, it was relatively easy for him to hand over his predecessor’s files.
His paper shuffling and tears are much too little too late. He should resign and tell us what he really knows.
That would be true Christian leadership.
Jerry — I agree with you 100%. I watched the program last night and felt the same exact way.
Amnesty International
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Amnestys-report-finds-Irelands-clerical-sexual-abuse-was-torture-130597558.html
Produced a study, ‘In Plain Sight’ which details abuse and torture of Irish children. Amnesty International cited the Vatican for human rights violation with regard to the protection of abused children…
Thanks, Joan for that link.
The current head of Amn. Intl. Ireland in the mid-’90’s was the first Irish abuse victim to sue the Irish bishjops. I bugged him several times to get AI to speak out, showing that soccer dads can also pack some kick. Take that Crystal! LOL
P.S. To date, as far as I know, no Irish bishop has yet been prosecuted for the massive cover up conspiracy.
I’m all for soccer dads, Jerry!
Jerry, I’m no apologist for the the Irish church. I read, ‘In Plain Sight’ and if we think the PA Grand Jury reports in 2005 and 2011 were bad (and indeed they are), they don’t hold a candle to ‘In Plain Sight’.
But, having said that, I thought drwho13 made some fair points. AB Martin should have spoken up way sooner. And yes, he was an ‘insider’, but the fact that he did (finally) speak up on a US nationally recognized, relatively ‘in depth’ news program, is in my view a big deal.
The notion of tears, prostration before an altar, and visiting 8 year olds, could be labeled ‘theater’.
OR it could be a very belated but sincere expression from his heart. I don’t know. But I am glad that the 60 Minutes piece, was aired.
Joan I agree at least he is moving in the right direction. That is what we have been asking for.
Geez! That Archbishop talking about the 8 year-olds… that really did it for me. I was surprised to see that it choked him up. I haven’t seen anything like that ever from a Catholic priest. But, I’m not stupid enough to think he’s the Messiah just yet. Priests have let me down before.
I went to a department store one time, and I was in the kids section and I picked up a pair of pants that would probably fit a 7 or 8 year-old and I held them out in front of me and I literally panicked and freaked out and cried like a baby. It really just hit me at how small I was back then. That was really hard.
ugh…I thought archbsp. Martin’s sappy, maudlin story about asking to see what an 8 yr-old looked like, was quite a performance – and just for a moment, I thought he was gonna go all “Jimmy Swaggart” on us…
I guess he figured he’d better turn on the water works briefly for 60 Minutes.– since 88%of his Dublin audience took their popcorn and left.
– And his Mass of atonement… (where he’s lying face down on the altar) — now there was some good theater!! lol! They’re still trying though…They just don’t get that Catholic Ireland’s over.
Jerry Slevin, I’m with you about soccer dad’s! And the dynamic of the catholic “girly men” thing– I understand of course, they were just an unfortunate product of indoctrination –in which plenty of crazed Cath. women also took a leading role. I guess the reality is that the more seriously a parent takes his/her responsibility for the welfare of his/her kids, the less likely they are to be victimized in life.
Geez that speech by Enda Kenny was da bomb!
When Diarmuid Martin became archbishop of Dublin, the first thing he did was release archdiocesan files to the Murphy commission. The commission had asked his predecessor Cardinal O’Connell for the files and he turned them down. After Archbishop Martin released
the files to the commission Cardinal O’Connell filed a lawsuit trying to stop him from doing
so. Archbishop Martin did not back down. After about a week or so, Cardinal O’Connell
withdrew the lawsuit. This is some background to consider on Archbishop Martin and the
fight he is in as the archbishop of Dublin.
Thank you for this Molly. Very interesting.
Thank you Molly. I was not aware of Cardinal O’Connell’s lawsuit to block the files being unsealed. Well done Diamuid Martin.