The Irish government has spoken out on the Vatican’s role in the clergy sex abuse scandal that has rocked their predominantly Catholic country. Their claim that the Holy See interfered with Bishops reporting abuse to police, falls in line with findings from Amnesty International. Earlier this year, the Noble Peace Prize-winning organization named the Vatican as a human rights violator in relation to its response to the global clergy sex abuse scandal.
The world is now watching.
Breaking News: “Vatican recalls envoy to Ireland amid abuse uproar,” by Victor Simpson, the Associated Press, PhillyNews.com, July 25, 2011
The following has moved so many to tears. I received dozens of emails with this link.
Enda Kenny Speech on Cloyne Report, RTE News Ireland
Edna Kinney is showing the resolve necessary to end the ABUSE OF CHILDREN. Mr. Kinney is bravely making it known to the ‘vatican’ that they can no longer hide behind the cloak of immunity !
Can we elect Enda Kenny as Pope? He is exactly what the church needs right now. Well spoken and written and with a beautiful, heartfelt delivery. He said it all. I wish he could lead a world wide revolution. He is a perfect spokesman for all of us.
I just have to ask: You want another pope?
???
Hope the Vatican envoy returning home doesn’t get hammered with those “baggage fees”. Of course, you know who’s footing the bill for this flight……….economy or first-class, I wonder?
On a serious note how does this affect the “sovereign” status of the Vatican? Will other countries follow this by expelling their Vatican diplomats? Will the USA follow with some of its policies about violence against women and child and put pressure on the Vatican. With such a strong statement and retaliation from the Vatican what would the United Nations and the World Court do? A sovereign nation abusing its citizens in any other nation would elicite a response. Can’t have it all, a nation, a corporation or a religion. Basically we have a “sovereign country” that is condemning another country on basic human rights. As advocates for children who should we be pressuringabout this issue?
We should be pressuring our local DA’s to enforce the law and investigate cover ups. We should pressure our state reps and state senators to eliminate both the civil and criminal statute of limitations on childhood sexual abuse (just like it is for murder in PA). We should pressure our national government to acknowledge the widespread coverup of child sexual abuse as a human rights violation. Please visit the Resources page to find local reps.
Thank You Susan.
Was looking for some suggestions of what we need to write.Like some concrete suggestions for letters and other than antidotal responses – facts and papers showing victims remember do remember details about their assault till their death – Why SOL should not be lifted – Marci Hamilton – Colorado (Chaput) ( Maybe that should be on a sign “we remember the murder of our souls on a protest sign.) and any other facts to dispute the reasons given not to lift SOLs. Why the church isn’t being targeted as their whatever (guess not employees – priests) have life time memberships to an exclusive club while school and other institutions have short term contracts with their employees. When we support the Irish, are we going as far as breaking the seal of confession? Exactly what constitutes the sacrament? Does it start when the priests prepares and ends when he leaves the sacristy for the Mass? In other words what does Canon Law say about priests defiling the confessional – is that breaking the sacred seal? Raping kids while preparing or finishing the Liturgy? Ireland does want to open the confessional. I doubt the person being raped in the confessional feels forgiven and the priest’s intentions are sick.
Would like to write emails or short letters that show some unity, whether it’s to protest what’s happening in Ireland, in Philly diocese or in Pennsylvania and getting legislation passed. Do we have any republicans supporting the bill – need bi-partisan support? How can we get more support outside Philly – still looks pretty Philly to me? Still waiting to get facts from a local newspaper – seems they didn’t publish that story on the e-edition – can’t find the studies that show abuse is getting worse in some areas in Pa – was contradicting what the politicians were saying.
http://www.zenit.org/article-26692?l=english
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/ireland-priests-must-break-seal-of-confession/
I wrote my letters when this first happened, looking for follow-up info to remind them after this debt crises is “over”. Sorry Rome, some of us will not forget after a news cycle.
Ed, Check out Justice4PAKids.com. Kathy and I are co-founders. We will be posting sample letters within a day or two. Lots of legislation info there.
Ed you have alot of good questions. I am not sure about priests breaking the seal of silence of confession. Not sure how I feel about that. You want to keep kids safe at all costs but could that be a slippery slope that other crimes might be revealed cheating on taxes shoplifting etc? I guess if you don’t commit crimes you don’t have to worry. Do they have to reveal if someone murders someone? Maybe you can shed some light on this. I believe confession should be done in a way that kids can be watched by teachers from a distance etc. so kids are not abused during confession. If it was my kid some priest confessed he abused I would want the police notified but will the state start adding other crimes to the listof crimes that need to be reported and then what happens? I would be interested in what people thought about the above.
Beth, I agree. Some posts are just that, start discussion so we really know what we are fighting against and what may offend us. I just don’t see it being a sacred trust when the crime happens in the confessional or before and after the Mass when the child is there for the purpose of celebrating the sacrament. The confessional has real healing power and many ministers wish they could have that sacrament. Just don’t think if a priest uses the confessional to rape and the person attempting to confess sins and is molested there or is told to report somewhere and molested it is actually a confession. I sure a lawyer would force the whole “confession” to be entered into evidence and a sin that is being used to manipulate ie adultery or for kids drug or alcohol use would be exposed. Know that many church/state issues such as these are being questioned. Also, there are debates about removing children being abused from their homes as many are then abused in foster homes. In PA there is a group called “Watchful Shepherd” that issues devices for children in these situations. So I believe we should look at the Ireland issues as a human rights issue, but not sure about the view of opening confession by civil authorities- believe that Rome should make their own actions against those who debased the sacraments (fat chance).
Susan, looking forward to the letters. Do a lot of letter writing for a few groups I am involved, enviromental causes, and we usually have a few main points – short and sweet and everyone on the same page.
Yes I hear what you are saying. You make good points I believe that if a crime is committed during confession it is no longer what it should be so I think the vow of silence should not apply. My question is what about the priest that confesses to another priest he molested a child not during consession? As a mother I would want the crime reported to the police but if that crime is reported what is to keep the civil authorities from slowly adding other crimes to the list of crimes to be reported then no will want to go to confession anymore? I don’t know what the solution is?
I think we can start by passing legislation sooner rather that later that would eliminate the ‘STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS ON THE SEXUAL ABUSE OF MINORS AND OPEN A WINDOW FOR THE PAST VICTIMS, STATE BY STATE. Until now the ‘rcc’ has enjoyed all that you have named : “corporation, nation and religion’ while they ( rcc) has systematically enabled and covered up the abuse. When the legislation is enacted the ‘rcc’ and anyone else who abuses children will then be held accountable, no more talk, I am tired of ‘all gab and no jab ” !
Well the Holy Spirit has turned on the lights and the light is so bright it is hurting the Vaticans eyes. Now everyone can see………..the ball is rolling whether they want it too or not………..change is inevitable………
Beth wrote:20 iRate This
Well the Holy Spirit has turned on the lights and the light is so bright it is hurting the Vatican’s eyes. Now everyone can see………..the ball is rolling whether they want it too or not………..change is inevitable………
”
I talked to Patrick Madrid on a call-in show on EWTN today. I couldn’t stand how the pew potatoes , AND Madrid were just going on and on about inanities completely oblivious to the Vatican/Ireland crisis. They even had hourly news breaks without any mention of it. I told him how my Catholic family goes and comes from mass and is ignorant as mushrooms about what is going on in their own church.
I will say that Patrick Madrid was gentlemanly and approachable in his manner. I wish we had more time to discuss our differences. He rejects the straightforward revelation of the catching away of the church in Paul’s epistles and clings to the amillennialist “replacement theology” error of professing Christendom. I still believe those guys know better but choose to carry on the myth, just like parents who choose to lie to their children about the existence of Santa Claus.
Did you ever look at realcatholictv.com? Exact opposite of EWTN in regards to they know the church is in crisis. Very conservative though. You might find it interesting very critical of the heirarchy but they love the church. If you can’t view because don’t subscribe go on utube.
The state/city /county DAs do not have the perjury laws that the Feds do. Lie to Fed attorneys or even the federal investigators and you go to jail. Say hello to Martha Stewart and Scooter Libby and others including Bill Clinton.. We need a Federal investigation of conspiracy to abuse. Msgr. Lynn should be brought before a Federal Grand Jury. it would be game,set, match in one day.. .
try this
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/07/25/ireland.vatican.abu
(CNN) — The Vatican on Monday recalled its envoy to Ireland in the wake of a blistering report accusing church leaders of covering up extensive papal abuse of young people.
Archbishop Giuseppe Leanza was recalled to Rome “for consultations with the (Vatican) Secretariat of State,” the official Vatican Information Service said in citing a statement from the Roman Catholic Church’s leadership.
The move came in reaction to this month’s release of the Cloyne report about “allegations of abuse of minors by clergy … and, in particular, in the wake of subsequent reactions.”
Released July 13, the 421-page report into abuses in the diocese of Cloyne — near the southern city of Cork — demolished claims by the Catholic Church in Ireland that policies it put in place in 1996 had enabled it to get a handle on the problem. It details how complaints against 19 clerics in the diocese were dealt with between 1996 and 2009.
It also accused Bishop John Magee, who was responsible for policing abuse in his diocese, of not backing the policy himself and failing to take action against abusers.
The Vatican last week had promised action, with the Rev. Federico Lombardi, director of the Holy See press office, saying in a statement the church “will respond appropriately.” He added the Vatican’s aim is to promote the protection of children and restore “an atmosphere of trust and collaboration in the Church and in society.”
His comments came days after Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny launched a stinging attack. He claimed that the Cloyne report exposed the Vatican as seeking to frustrate an inquiry into child sex abuse for its own benefit, even after the scandal blew up worldwide.
On listening to the evidence of humiliation and betrayal, Kenny said, “The Vatican’s reaction was to parse and analyze it with the gimlet eye of a canon lawyer … this calculated, withering position being the polar opposite of the radicalism, humility and compassion upon which the Roman Church was founded.”
The report exposed “a tale of a frankly brazen disregard for protecting children,” the prime minister added, as he praised the courage of the victims of abuse who had spoken out to investigators.
Lombardi responded in a statement saying some criticisms of the Vatican went too far and “demonstrate little awareness of what the Holy See has actually done over the years to help effectively address the problem.”
One point of contention is a 1997 letter from the Vatican’s envoy to Ireland that warns bishops to follow church law while investigating cases of suspected child sex abuse by priests. The envoy expresses “serious reservations” about requiring that such cases be reported to the police.
That letter, since being revealed recently, has stoked harsh criticism in Ireland. Numerous Irish victims of sexual abuse, for example, wrote collectively in January that they are “disgusted” by the message.
The Vatican, in turn, has called the letter “deeply misunderstood.”
Ireland should break diplomatic relations with the Holy See; enough is enough!
Whatever statement the Holy See makes following its meeting with the Irish apostolic nuncio will have the same credibility as if it came out or Iran, or North Korea.
Beth wrote on 7-Beth July 26, 2011 at 6:52 pm ”
Did you ever look at realcatholictv.com? Exact opposite of EWTN in regards to they know the church is in crisis. Very conservative though. You might find it interesting very critical of the hierarchy but they love the church. If you can’t view because don’t subscribe go on utube.”
Thanks for the reply Beth. Posters at my web site http://xcatholic.yuku.com
frequently post M. Voris’s videos there and I used to receive email from his organization. You’re very right about Voris being critical of the hierarchy of the Roman organization, and EWTN definitely is “head in sand” overall about the scandal unless, as I did, it is brought up by a caller. Most Catholics I would think have to admit that the Roman organization has as many “denominations” as does the Protestant in reality. In fact, today — there is not , in my opinion, much real difference between the views on God and religion between the population of the world and those calling themselves “Catholic.” The only difference being that some have been born into the Catholic religion and have continued to attend more or less regularly.
Continue reply to Beth.
By contrast, the actual Body of Christ is not an organization at all Beth. The scriptures tell us, when we carefully study, that the Body is not a place where you go, or things that you do, but what you believe. And to be in this Body one has to believe what God has revealed , i.e., the gospel (I Corinthians 15:1-4 is one very complete statement of this gospel.)
Hi Gerald. Thanks for answering me back. The above is something to think about. I feel we might be getting off topic of child abuse so I am going to avoid any lengthy debate but I do want to say you are a thoughtful and intelligent man.
Beth,Thanks for the compliment, you are very kind. I have to leave for a Dr. appt. so this is brief. We are not far off-topic since the thread started with the shock of the Irish Govt. standing up to the Vatican, and you [correctly] remarked that the “lights” were now turned on [which is true] but I countered that it is not enough to shake the Catholics who don’t wish to know what is going on, but continue to deny, deny, and deny.
Best thoughts.
“A Vatican spokesman said Archbishop Giuseppe Leanza was recalled to help prepare an official response to Irish complaints, but that the decision “does not exclude some degree of surprise and disappointment at certain excessive reactions.”
He was recalled because the people were finally speaking out, and they do not know what to do, as they are all part of this horror show. “Excessive reactions”????? Excessive to whom? The men in satin and lace?
“The spokesman, the Rev. Ciro Benedettini, acknowledged the recall of an ambassador was a measure rarely used by the Holy See, underlining “the seriousness of the situation.”
You mean they did not think it serious before people started actively accusing and addressing the situation???? What does this tell you? They WANT mushroom people under them!
“The deepening crisis follows a July 13 report that the Irish diocese of Cloyne failed to act on complaints against 19 priests from 1996 to 2009. It further alleged the Vatican encouraged bishops to ignore child-protection guidelines including the requirement that abuse claims be reported to civil authorities.”
So for TWELVE YEARS they allowed 19 priests, they KNOW about, run their evil over the pewbies! Would you be righteously angry? Or would you sit in the dark and talk about your love for the Church? This is no Church of God, my friends.
There’s no “Thumbs up” on here anymore, so I decided to write and second your thoughts “Ex-Catholic.”
Amen!
As a first generation Irish-American, I am so proud and happy to hear the Irish PM stand up to the Vatican as none have before. Yes, the lives of many abused people paid for this day, but it has come at last. God bless Enda Kenny.
Now, it is time for American Catholics to make the hierarchy understand that their arrogance and obfuscation will not be tolerated in this country. I am writing to my congress people today to let them know that as cradle Catholic American, I want all incidences of abuse handled in civil courts, and I want the RCC to know that civil law is paramount in this country.
Just wanted to add a comment about the “seal” of the confessional. This seal is not only another farce for controlling the Catholic people, it is a true abomination.
To think that you go into a little box to relate your deepest sins to another man, who in this dispensation of grace, has NO authority from God to give or not give forgiveness, is horrific.
Yes, this was given to the Apostle Peter, UNDER THE LAW, and when Israel was to be the bearers of the gospel of the Kingdom. It is not in effect right now, because Israel was “cast away” for a time, because they did not believe nor accept their own Messiah!
God did something new. The RISEN Jesus Christ raised up a new Apostle to the Gentiles, with the gospel of the grace of God. We know from this gospel that the only Advocate between God and man today is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, seated at the right Hand of the Father!
What was given to Peter, will once again be in effect when the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. (Luke 21:24 Catholic Bible) But right now, we come boldly into the throne room of God because those that believe on Christ alone for salvation, God see’s as righteous. This won’t be so after the Rapture of the church…then those that are left will once again be under the Law, and will have to endure to the end of Tribulation.
Do you want your 7yr old son or daughter alone in a box with a pedofile…asking sexual questions about touching and so forth, things that YOU yourself would not consider discussing with your child? I was abused from my first confession and spent YEARS in a constant state of distress and torment.
I think a lot of Catholics are in their naive trust of their priests, are also going to be questioned and judged by God. God gave simple and clear instructions. It does not matter if you are Catholic to the marrow of your bones, as I was…or that everyone you know and trust belongs to this religion…salvation today is individual, no piggybacking on the priests or the system. Individually God will ask you why you believed as you do. God said that we are to “study to show ourselves approved unto God”….have you done that, or are you still relying on others to take care of everything for you? Well…I did not like the idea of Hell and never wanted to burn for eternity, so I made sure about what I was believing in.
It is my prayer and hope that all of you do the same.
I regret you suffered that “Ex-Catholic.” One can certainly understand why you particularly are repelled by the “confessional.”
Thank God for “the grace of God through faith.”