A compelling new BBC documentary about what Pope Benedict knew about pedophile priests. The two links below are parts 1 and parts 2 of this film as viewed on You Tube. It includes some American notables such as Father Tom Doyle and attorney Jeff Anderson.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnxwgDxxAUY&feature=related <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnxwgDxxAUY&feature=related>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb78v1v4IGY&feature=related <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb78v1v4IGY&feature=related>
My impression from this video is that the “management team” was and is unefficient and so far removed personally from the abuse that they handle it in a detached manner. The other impression that they like many were hoping this was a curable disease/ sin. I think if the “management team” walked more among the people and the victims and were not afraid to take a good look at the abuse for what it really is “soul murder” they might make some progress. As well as stream lining the handling of sexaul abuse cases and changing cannon law. Also the realization that this in not curable and making changes that would address this issue in a common sense way. What was done previously was wrong and not swift enough to protect the vicitms. The good news is that what was wrong can be corrected but it will take alot of humbleness and repentance on the part of the “Management team”
I have to add a true gesture of remorse would be to put together an advisory panel of vicitms and there families that the “managment team/pope” actually listen to because there is no that wants to root out child abuse like a victim. Because they know like no one else the impact it has had on their life they have experienced we can only iimagine and that is only if we take the time to listen to them. I think the solution to the problem is multi faceted but a big part is simply listening to the victims they can tell us the church what needs to be done and if listened to would be a source of healing for them as well as lead to swift efficient changes to protect children. It is ashame it is lawsuits leading many to be humble instead of realizing this on their own.
There are lies of comission and lies of omission. As I read the testimony given by the hierarchy about what they knew and when they knew it, phrases like: “I do not recall, not to my knowledge, I had to follow eccclesiastical laws, the informants might have mistaken gestures, it was their word against the word of a priest, I did not want to malign the integrity of a priest”, these were very serious charges (ya think?), the testimony turns out to be smoke and mirrors, obfuscation and outright lies.
I realize that many will not think the situations are similar, but blacks, women, gays, war protestors, people with disabilities could only win when they challenged the hierarchy. The Church belongs to God and the people – not to a hierarchy of men.
THE WORLD NOW KNOWS WHAT THE POPE KNEW AND WHEN HE KNEW IT THE PROBLEM NOW IS TO HOLD THE ‘RCC’ ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT THEY DID AND WHAT THEY FAILED TO DO !
Evil is at the heart of the Roman Catholic Church and always has been. This is NOT something NEW. We live with the ability to communicate from almost anywhere in the world today…it is simply that people are now hearing about the Pedophilia, Homosexuality and true sinfulness of this religion of MEN.
Evil starts at the top and corrupts all that stay attached to it. Those who sit in the pews and allow this evil are just as reprehensible. They allow the crimes against children just the same as a pope or any priest, bishop or archbishop to continue daily by their participation and support.
I watched both movies…they all look so evil…because they allow and are part of such uncontrolled evil. What can anyone say in their defense? And people believe this is the representation of Christ on earth? What a horrific slam to faith and belief in the our Lord and Saviour!
The hierarchy of the RCC is in a terrible mess. And, perhaps they are evil. Frankly, I don’t think they started out to be evil, but the inward looking, fearful, proud, and arrogant men who lead our church have no idea that the church is the people of God.
The men now leading our church are political animals who value their own position and power. They think they are ordained by God to do what they are doing and will not/cannot believe that they are wrong. They need the light of grace to shine on them. Let us pray that the light of grace falls on them–even if it is in the guise of civil suits!!! Or criminal prosecution. Whatever works…
Oh he knew alright. He is just as guilty as the guilty priests. Why arent the priests held to the same laws as others. They need to spend time behind bars like the average citizen. The Church is NOT above the law.
I don’t know how, but I never received this one.I had to discover it when it was posted on my web site. lol.
Not really funny— the subject matter is very sad.
Elizabeth T said: “They need the light of grace to shine on them. Let us pray that the light of grace falls on them–even if it is in the guise of civil suits!!! Or criminal prosecution. ”
Amen!!
I spent many, many years as a Catholic and I became so serious as a young man of @25 [now 79]that I tried to convince friends to become catholic or return to Catholicism, sometimes by correspondence. I had good friends who were Protestant missionaries, and I tried to convince them they had to convert to RCC. Now I listen sometimes to Catholic radio [EWTN] and I hear them entangled in religion and all the frills that go with it— liturgical reforms, new missal, back to tradition and Latin and on and on.
Some are so far trapped in it they will have a real hard time getting extricated. And I even believe some, a few, no better — they may have seen that terrible mistakes and errors were made long ago, but they would rather continue the lies than change things because they have it sooooo good this way. Yes, they do need prayer. I am convinced that The Saviour doesn’t condemn the Catholics who are misled and have been placed under superstition, fear of hell, idolatry [adoration of the bread] and so on. I pray for them and especially those in my own family. I pray for the catholics here on C4C as well.
Please correct: Know better
http://xcatholic.yuku.com
“I am convinced that The Saviour doesn’t condemn the Catholics who are misled and have been placed under superstition, fear of hell, idolatry [adoration of the bread] and so on.”
May I ask a question Gerald…why would our God who gave His only Son on the cross for us…give people who reject the grace of God by living under a religion that teaches them falsely…be not condemned?
Why wouldn’t a Muslim, or anyone else that grew up under superstition, fear of hell, idolotry and so on, then also not be condemned? Or even witchcraft or whatever they were indoctrinated into that believed in a false gospel?
In my Bible, it clearly say to “study to shew THYSELF approved unto God”…and He also says that they are without excuse…
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened
I too have Catholic family and friends…and I pray for them all the time.
“I am convinced that The Saviour doesn’t condemn the Catholics who are misled and have been placed under superstition, fear of hell, idolatry [adoration of the bread] and so on.”
Ex-Catholic And Saved By Grace wrote:
May I ask a question Gerald…why would our God who gave His only Son on the cross for us…give people who reject the grace of God by living under a religion that teaches them falsely…be not condemned?
Why wouldn’t a Muslim, or anyone else that grew up under superstition, fear of hell, idolotry and so on, then also not be condemned? Or even witchcraft or whatever they were indoctrinated into that believed in a false gospel?
In my Bible, it clearly say to “study to shew THYSELF approved unto God”…and He also says that they are without excuse…
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened
I too have Catholic family and friends…and I pray for them all the time.
My Reply:I could have included in that statement you quoted above ” … and so on when they have not had the gospel revealed unto them.” As in all discussions, is good to first agree on wha t we really have a difference over , and not “get off on the wrong foot.” So here is an elaboration of what I mean in the portion you quoted: I don’t mean either of these ideas:
1) These Catholics are all saved and headed for heaven.
2)These Catholics are all headed for hell.
I see some Catholics as saved and headed for heaven
I see some Catholics who have not yet been saved.
I see that ALL who remain as practicing the religion are not “condemned” and here is why:
There are SOME Catholics who believe the the basis of the gospel , i.e., that their sin has been forgiven through their belief in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ (I Cor. 15:1-4)
.
These can be enlightened by the Holy Spirit to back out of the things the CC mixes in with that gospel.
THE OTHERS
Then there are some who have not heard the aforementioned gospel , or not clearly, and they are not yet saved from their sin.
Another “some” could be tose who have been presented with gospel truth and have rejected it out of hand. These I am really concerned about — they NEED the Word of Truth to save them.
In short– I say Christ doesn’t condemn those to whom the Word of Truth has not yet been revealed. The scripture says that after God reveals a truth- man is responsible to believe it.
Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
And then, the mystery only revealed to Paul, our Apostle [Gentiles]-
Galatians 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Philippians 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Daniel the prophet spoke of things revealed about the time on earth AFTER the Body of Christ is with Christ in the heavens:
Daniel 2:29 As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass.
And finally-Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
As I think you know Ex-Catholic And Saved By Grace- the majority of what we call Christendom don’t believe “the Word of Truth” (Ephesians 1:13) and most haven’t heard it. That is my reason “Ex-Catholic And Saved By Grace Forums” exists, to publish that Word, and not to condemn Catholics or others in the professing church. When God saved me, I was right there in the RCC just as they are. The Savior didn’t condemn me in my sin.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
I think practicing Catholics have a lot of questions they need to ask themselves about why they cling to (or are afraid to leave) a religion/institution that has been so corrupt and is misaligned with the teachings of their Lord…and ultimately what their role has been in it as well.
But to say they may be going to hell because they’ve been misled by false priests? No. Too many good people being led by the Spirit sitting in Catholic churches for that to be true.
I inadvertantly left out the last page of my post, so here it is:
You quoted Romans 1:17-21.
Do you mean that Paul ws saying more than simply-
that the existence of God could be known by faith, in early man just by the “things that are seen?”
Do you mean that Paulis saying in these verses that his gospel of grace had been revealed to man before it was revealed by Paul?
My own view is tghat in verse 19 and 20 Paul is saying they are “without excuse” for not taking by faith what are “the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world.” I believe that the gospel was not revealed — but hidden until revealed by Christ from heaven to Paul in the 1st century. That That is why I hold that we are responsible to believe [by faith] what God has revealed to us. What do you say?
I don’t mean to condemn Catholics, but to condemn the lies they are taught to believe and put their trust in…
I believe when a Catholic knows the truth, they can only come out of the religion eventually. How can they stay knowing all the lies and deceit…all the evil that has been held over them? It is not a religion to be reformed, evil can’t be reformed.
I do know that it did take me quite sometime to come out, as it was not just the religion I was leaving, but my whole way of life, and I did not know where to go.
Thanks Gerald. I will try to digest what you wrote.