Click here to watch Pat Ciarrocchi’s trial report with C4C interview: “Clergy Sex Abuse Trial Resumes Tuesday,” by CBS Philly, May 27, 2012
Click here to watch Pat Ciarrocchi’s trial report with C4C interview: “Clergy Sex Abuse Trial Resumes Tuesday,” by CBS Philly, May 27, 2012
It is a cult! For Lynn to not call 911 is absurd. I guess if the Bev or Rigali told Lynn to drink poisoned Kool-Aid, he would have done that too!
“… cult…” or sect?
Originally cited by Jerry S., but WELL worth re-citing and reading:
http://ncronline.org/blogs/grace-margins/roman-catholic-church-downsizing-sect
Thanks, Hadit, and I hope C4C bloggers also read my comment under the article entitled, “Yes, A Sexless Male Sect”, which has been bumped down to page 2 of the comments.
Seems like Lynn is doing what has always worked for him – stay calm, stay respectful and keep lying. Showing compassion (as the couple from his parish say) comes easy if you continually practice your role. Just as he showed compassion to the people in his parish, he also showed compassion for the victims of sexual abuse – BUT THAT WAS ALL. Anyone can do that. A compassionate person would walk the walk – DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. He talks about the priests not being diagnosed as pedophiles. Who needs a label WHEN THE ELEPHANT IS IN THE ROOM??? Why is a label or diagnosis necessary? Lynn is really showing that he is a calculated liar.
I wonder if that couple from his parish would think highly of Lynn if their son was one of the boys raped. I wonder what they would think of Lynn if he showed great compassion for them but did nothing to have stopped the rape BEFORE it happened by calling the police on a previous incident; and if not before, taking action on the immediate crime. These people need to wake up. Compassion (or any emotion) is so easy to pretend – talk is cheap. Lynn can be called the GREAT PRETENDED (or GREAT LIAR). Do they want Lynn to be found innocent?? They heard the evidence – WHAT IS THIS COUPLE THINKING? By saying the rosary, what do they want? They heard Lynn’s testimony – do they want a miracle to happen? Do they want Lynn to go on protecting rapists?
There are many versions of this quote but basically “evil wins when good men do nothing”………
I agree Lynn lied and covered up……….. look at the documents. He could have quit.
Even better he could have called the police.
Perhaps, a fitting corollary to the famous Edmund Burke quote …
Good men ALWAYS to something when faced with evil.
SS, Lynn’s daily entourage of relatives and priests and rosary beads suggest carefully planning by Lynn/Chaput’s lawyers. Likely, they think it might sway at least one juror, which is all they need.
We will see in a few days now whose prayers God has listened to.
Either way, we now know the Philly AD and PA laws need drastic changes that must be made.
Otherwise, the Lynn trial could have been largely in vain.
Am willing to bet the couple who were interviewed in the clip, supporting Lynn, have not read the the segments in both the Grand Jury reports for 2005 and 2011 noted in the RESOURCES link at top of page, that deal with Lynn’s responsibility, for abuse.
Joan I think the same thing and also Archbishop Bev’s testamony and they weren’t a victim he lied to either saying he knew of no other victims and that other kids were safe from the predator priests and they dont have to woke up every night with nightmares or take 20 meds to get thru the day etc
Exactly, Susan!
That misguided couple is worried about how Lynn is being treated….what about how the children (victims) have been treated? Does that even enter their minds or have they blocked thier minds from letting this reality in?!
Susan, terrific TV coverage. Your interview was clearly credible and very effective. Slowly, but surely, you are getting the TV media to pay attention, notwithstanding the Catholic hierarchy’s proven ability to dominate the TV brass. Hopefully, many C4C bloggers will turn out for the last few days of the trial to emphasize, including to Seth Williams and PA legislators, how important it is to Catholics to see justice done and abuse curtailed.
Why is it the VICTIMS and their FAMILIES are never given the same courtesies as the enablers and perps, the couple from lynn’s parish are typical of the catholic customers that the hierarchy depend on as they fail to realize that this type of support only serves to further damage the church and create potential future risk for Innocent Children.
That news clip was not sympathetic to Lynn….Susan and Lynn A. were very clear about the evils involved and the questions that were posed on the clip were very tough.
The fact that victims and their families were not interviewed…were they there? is a concern, but I would guess the interviewers wanted to add some balance.
Ok, can you explain to me what you mean by “to add some balance” ? thx. Also please provide the link, names etc of those VICTIMS and THEIR FAMILIES that were interviewed.
Unabletotrust….the balance thing is just that about three quarters of the clip did not feel, to me, supportive of Lynn….and I am just guessing that the CBS folks were adding some Lynn supportive material to ‘balance’ their clip.
Don’t have any info on victims and their families….
The day I was interviewed, I didn’t see any of the victims or families whom I’ve met via c4c in court. The cameras were there because of Lynn, and I think it was a logistics thing. I was there and there were supporters of Lynn. Clearly, I don’t share their viewpoint, so there’s the balance. But I agree we need to hear more from those most impacted.
you are totally correct.
From what I understand, the first row behind the prosecution is reserved for survivors and their families. It would be nice to see it full every day, but that is a personal decision.
When I attended the trial on 3 days during the 7th week, victims occupied the last row behind the prosecution. I assume that was a personal decision.
The only people I saw occupy the first row behind the prosecution was on the day the nun testified and said, “he could have quit.” When she testified, she had two supporters occupy the first row. One, I was told, was a relative, victimized by the same priest who abused the nun. After the nun testified, she and her supporters exited the courtroom.
I know it will be crowded in the courtroom this week, therefore, it may be more difficult to discern who is who in 304. I’m going to attend all week. I hope I can touch base and spend some time with the victims I met during week 7. Who knows what else will transpire…
haditcatholic, I will be there in court on tuesday! I would love to speak to any reporters as a survivor of abuse from 3 catholic priests and who had several meetings with msgr. lynn! It would “make my day.”
Vicki, you are one brave person. With Hadit as your “publicist”, I expect to see at least a half hour interview on prime time TV. Good luck to the both of you!
I hope to attend Tuesday also,at least for the morning session
Recent NPR quote regarding Lynn and liability for his actions.
“Marci Hamilton, a professor at Cardozo Law School who has represented victims of abuse, calls this “the classic Mei Lei defense or the Nuremberg defense.”
“It’s the idea that … as someone who was under orders, the person had no choice as to what they could do,” Hamilton says. “But it’s not a defense to criminal charges because you’re charged according to your actions, and his actions were clearly part of a conspiracy to cover up abuse and to permit these abusers to have access to numerous children.”
Hamilton believes the defense is hoping the jury will acquit Lynn because he wasn’t ultimately responsible.”
There are several citations for the NPR quote…here is one link:
http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/npr/153800130/just-doing-his-job-is-catholic-official-s-defense
And a further question for the legal types…is there not a law in PA that stipulates that the ‘Nuremburg defense’ cannot be applied?
Joan, as a NY lawyer, I don’t know PA law, but would be surprised if there were such a law. It is unnecessary. If Lynn is guilty of endangerment, it would take a PA law to establish he could hide behind his “following orders” defense. I would be shocked if PA had such a law.
What Lynn’s lawyers may be hoping for, is that the jurors will find that Lynn lacked criminal “intent” and was only trying to please his boss, not harm children. I do not think jurors will buy that bull.
Lynn intentionally took actions that endangered children. That he may also have wanted to please his boss is interesting, but should be legally irrelevant. It is really no different than a mob hit man who murders at his boss’ directions to please his boss. Lynn and the hit man could always have said NO!
A quote from Enlightened Catholicism, May 10
“The following is an excerpt from the most recent post by Ralph Cipriano’s coverage of the clerical abuse trial still underway in Philadelphia. It’s powerful because it carries foundational truths. It involves the testimony of a nun who was sexually abused by one Father Cudemo, her uncle, who not only abused her, but other of her cousins and ten other female victims. The Archdiocese was first made aware of Cudemo’s problems in 1966, but he was allowed to prey on children for another 25 years until something was finally done. As far as defendant Msgr Lynn is concerned, her testimony probably put the dagger in Lynn’s Nuremberg style defense.
All along, the defense mantra has been that the monsignor was just a cog in the wheel down at archdiocese headquarters on 222 N. 17th St., and that the ultimate villain in the case was the guy who wielded the ultimate power in the archdiocese, the conveniently dead Cardinal Anthony J. Bevilacqua.
But the nun on the witness stand refused to play along.
It started when Thomas Bergstrom, a defense lawyer for Msgr. Lynn, tried to get the nun on cross-examination to agree that Msgr. Lynn did not have the power to remove from ministry a pastor who had sexually abused her and at least 10 other women.
“He [Lynn] had the power to suggest it,” she said, referring to the removal of the pastor. And then on redirect, when the prosecutor asked her about the power Lynn had as the archdiocese’s secretary for clergy, the nun said that Lynn had the simple power of just saying no.
Instead of going along with the power structure, the nun said, “You can also say, I cannot do this.”
It was a simple, but powerful declaration coming from a nun who herself was an administrator down at archdiocese HQ, and also as a young woman, a victim of sex abuse from a pervert priest.
The nun, who did not want to be identified, wasn’t finished.
“I would think that his [Lynn’s] recommendation would be heard,”she told Assistant District Attorney Patrick Blessington. And if it wasn’t, Lynn could have told the cardinal, “I cannot go on; if it isn’t done that way, I can quit.”
Vicky,
Hopefully there will be cameras at the courthouse for you, tomorrow! See you there.
See you, too, Kathy!
Hadit, Vicki and Kathy, In the remote chance you get the opportunity to talk to the media, I hope you tell them you are looking forward to Lynn’s boss, Rigali’s day in court. He and Lynn overlapped for some months and surely Rigali spoke to Lynn about problem priests after the 2005 grand jury investigation likely forced Rigali to transfer Lynn to a parish.
Rigali also oversaw the two dozen priests suspended last year and presided over the six year apparent “suppression” of the shredding memo.
You just have to read this link:
‘Pope: Pentecost is a feast of unity, understanding and sharing”
http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-pentecost-is-a-feast-of-unity-understanding-a
Thanks, JV, for sharing the pope’s latest propaganda piece. He speaks of “…listening and sharing…” with deep humility. When has he followed his own homily?
If the pope’s words tracked his conduct, he instead would have said ” ..coercing and deceiving…” with deep animosity.
Please pay close attention to how the pope acts, and little to what he says.
Please read the comment, “How High Up Does It Go?”, accessible by clicking on at:
http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/all-hell-breaks-loose-holy-see
Susan and Kathy: Please consider blocking JV’s comments. It seems clear he is not for “change” but for defending the status quo. He should be commenting on catholics4clericalism. He is insulting and insensitive to survivors’ feelings and adds little to warrant continuing to give him a platform.
Jerry S,
I say let that fool (JV) and other like him to continue to post. No one on this site takes them seriously, BUT THEY DO SERVE A PURPOSE. They never allow us to forget the bizarre opposition that remains out there.
“The phrase ‘useful idiots’, supposedly Lenin’s, refers to Westerners (as well as Philly AD supporters) duped into saying good things about bad regimes.” (BBC World Service, 11 August 2010)
People such as John Ventorino naively think of themselves as allies of the AD and RCC, while they’re actually held in contempt and can be cynically useful.
Susan and Kathy, please allow John Ventorino and other with similar positions to continue to remind us of the type of people that support the AD, and oppose SOL.
drwho, a few times over the past year I linked some articles or made some very respectful comments on various Catholic sites..my comments and links were removed within minutes..I was censored because they are afraid of the truth. I feel strongly about not censoring people on this site because I know how that feels and also because we have the truth. I am not afraid of other people’s comments because nothing can take away from the truth. Although I do question why some would invade a space that has been a source of comfort to those who have been harmed..the victims and their families. Why someone would feel the need to even take that little bit of comfort from someone who suffered so much is beyond me and reflects nothing about Catholicism that I learned in my 16 years of Catholic education.
Kathy: Generally, I agree with you. But JV’s posts seem hurtful to survivors. But as this point, I would ask them to speak for themselves. I tried, but perhaps I am wrong.
Kathy,
Thank you for allowing all voices here. I can appreciate Jerry’s response but silenicing is a favorite tool of the Vatican. Not something to be imitated. John might consider actually engaging in conversation rather than what feel like drive-by shootings.
Martin
are you really a grown up? AND a lawyer? unbelievable….
are you really a grown up man and a lawyer???
Jerry, While I agree that some commenters can be insulting and insensitive with their postings I don’t feel that they have that great of an impact overall. I tried to reach out to JV yesterday out of a desire to encourage a deeper understanding of the issues I have faced as a survivor. I appreciate that this blog doesn’t function as an echo chamber, that said, It would be nice if posters would take a moment before they hit send to consider the impact of their words.
Is the pope Catholic? Apparently he is; he makes the Catholic blunder again of supposing Pentecost was the start of the RCC, when the words of Peter AT THE REAL PENTECOST IN ACTS 2 are directed to “ye men of Israel.” Why we ask did Peter address Israel if this was the beginning of the RCC rather than the lead up to the earthly kingdom of heaven , which Israel rejected soon after?
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
John,
Ok sounds good on paper but what the heck is that going to do for a child presently being raped by a priest because another priest (Lynn) decided not to call the police because Archbishop Bev. said not to. I mean really. Like Jerry said I want actions…….like protecting kids and putting predators in jail. Jesus and the apostles and paul went to jail were beaten etc… for good cause like converting men and women to the faith……I don’t think the current hierarchy would have the stomach to make those sacrifices…….for souls in the future because they dont even make them for children now .
John, do you have anything to learn from the victims?
From the article above, Joseph Ratzinger, the pope, says:
“We do not grow in understanding by closing ourselves off inside ourselves, but only by becoming capable of listening and sharing, in the “ourselves” of the Church, with an attitude of deep personal humility.”
The contrast between pope and bishops preaching the Gospel and living it is stark. Maybe they need to stop preaching, stop closing themselves off, start listening, and showing some humility. Might they not learn directly from the Church — in the persons of the victims?
Tom Doyle, priest and victim’s advocate:
“In the US the Catholic bishops have created a number of programs and policies and have aggressively implemented their “Zero Tolerance” policy. In spite of these policies and the expensive public relations efforts they have implemented, the attitude of the bishops as a collective group has not only not changed but it has gotten worse. Their disdain for the victims has become more and more obvious. The true measure of their understanding of the horrific nature of the issue and their commitment to change is not the programs, policies, documents or speeches they generate but their unqualified attitude of compassion toward the victims and this is scandalously lacking. The bishops simply don’t get it or if they do get it, they don’t care….
The persistent struggle of the pope and the bishops to maintain control over this nightmare that never ends is painfully obvious: a struggle to exonerate themselves, a struggle to direct and determine every aspect of the response and above all, a struggle to maintain some semblance of superiority over the victims….
The most recent egregious example of this hypocrisy has been directed at the main source of hope and recovery for countless victims; the concerted attempts to destroy SNAP and defame its leaders for no other reason than the fact that they have had the courage to stand up to and challenge the integrity of the institutional Church.”
http://www.richardsipe.com/Doyle/2012/Santa%20Clara%20-%20May%2015,%202012c%5B5%5D.pdf
Jv Pentecost is the descending of the Holy Spirit, at which time, the apostles received the gift of the Holy Spirit, and many other gifts some being discernment, different tongues, healing,………….We all know that Jesus knows all……see all. I BELIEVE the victims, and will continue to stand up for what is right. I am catholic, and a christian.. May God be with and in your heart, and as always hold us in the palm of His hand. Peace
Add: Pentecost was the — lead up to the continued offering of the earthly kingdom of heaven, which Israel continued to reject by killing Stephan in Acts 7?
Susan,
You are an excellent spokesperson on behalf of victims, children, SOL reform, Church reform, and all of us at C4C. Thank you.
Right you are, had it! Thank you Susan…and Kathy. What would we do without this forum?!!
Winner of 2004 Award from the Catholic Leadership Institute in Wayne, PA:
Pat Ciarrocchi is the co-anchor KYW CBS 3’s Eyewitness News at noon. A winner of both a local Emmy Award and the prestigious Gabriel Award from the National Catholic Association of Broadcasters, Pat has been a visible Catholic leader in the community for years. She is involved with The Breast Health Institute, The Women’s Domestic Abuse Project, and the Sisters of Blessed Sacrament. She has been honored for her local community work by the CYO Hall of Fame and this past year served as co-chair of BLOCS (Business Leaders Organized for Catholic Schools). Pat is a lector at St. Matthias in Bala Cynwyd, and is married with two sons.
Susan, the interview is very nicely done, professional, and right on point. Thank you. Which of these stories is more likely that our great grandchildren will read in 200 years?
News Agency Rome (June 1, 2212) Rome was crowded this week as hundreds of thousands of the faithful converged on St. Peter’s Basilica to celebrate 200 years since the Great Reforms of 2012. The reforms took place shortly after the arrests of … and … on charges of … The reforms allowed priests to marry and women to become priests, among many other changes. The Church saw an immediate growth and revitalization, and since that time has become the main leader in bringing the peace that has reigned in the world ever since… Or will it be–
News Agency Rome (June 1, 2212) Pope Benedict XXII greeted well-wishers today as he boarded his helicopter after a papal audience at the new Pope Saint John Paul the Great Auditorium on his way to the Papal summer residence at Castelgandolfo. Among the crowd were a group of thousands of Americans who had come to Rome to help celebrate the canonization of the Six Great American Bishops who safeguarded Church teaching during a time of great heresy just two centuries ago. The six are Saint William Levada, Saint Roger Mahony, Saint Edward Egan, Saint Bernard Law, Saint Anthony Bevilacqua and Saint Justin Rigali. During a period of great turmoil and persecution of Catholics, these Six Great Bishops, together with Saint William Lynn, stayed the course and kept the faith, protecting young and old alike in the face of heretical attacks by some of the worst persecutors of the Church since the early days of the Roman Empire. During the time of heresy in 2012, the notorious Jerry S., and the cunning Hadit, together with heretical organizers Susan and Kathy, were arrested on terrorism charges when they visited the Vatican. The Phillie Four, as they became known, said they were there for a peaceful protest, but vigilant Vatican security discovered bomb devices in luggage at their hotel rooms. The Phillie Four were kept–not in prison–but in a secure room off the security area inside the Vatican for many years. Eventually, officials stated that the four must have escaped for they never were heard or seen again. The Vatican maintained a respectful and dignified silence about their disappearance, and attributed their disappearance to their cunning and to the work of the devil. Although a small group of protesters said they feared the worst had happened to the four while in custody, the faithful were reassured by Pope Saint Benedict XVI that they were granted great Christian charity during their period of detention. The Church became much smaller in 2012, but it was filled with serious Catholics, and many new novenas and apparitions were approved. The faithful were delighted when Pope Saint Benedict XVI merged the Church’s investments with defense contractors Northrup Grumman, SAIC, ManTech, Lockheed Martin, and BAE Defense Systems under the guidance of Saint George Weigel, Saint Michael Novak and Saint William Lori. Saint Weigel has been credited with the miraculous re-growth of the missing leg for one of the 900,000 young American men and women now missing limbs, lost in the ongoing wars to defend God and the Church Hierarchy. The trio of North American saints are credited with returning the Vatican Bank to great profitability during the wars that have continued for the past 200 years. In 2012, a palace was built in Rome for Saints Weigel and Novak, where they lived for many years. The faithful visit their tombs there where they pray to the pair in silence, and many miracles have been attributed to them. Another benefit from their work has been that Vatican ownership of property in Rome has increased from a mere 35 percent of commercial property in 2012 to nearly 70 percent today, and profits from residential leases are up dramatically. Centers for the homeless have been set up on the outskirts in their names. To add even more joy, the faithful are expecting an announcement that former Opus Dei members and Supreme Court Justices John Roberts, Nino Scalia, and Sam Alito soon will be canonized, a move many long have expected.
Brilliant and effective, Mark. In your story, I finally got to meet Susan, Kathy and Hadit in a Vatican jail. I would have preferred to meet them in a Philly Pub! Thanks for that imaginative effort.
Jerry, I laughed so hard that my dogs thought something was wrong with me. Mark, I concur with Jerry, BRILLIANT! I love it! Please write more it does wonders for my phyche!
I am happy it made you laugh, Vicki. As Art Linklater once said, laughter is the best medicine. I have a book entitled, “Jesus’ Sense of Humor”. We cannot let this evil hierarchy rob us of our ability to laugh on occasion.
If for no other reason, Mark’s piece amplifies the fact that history is written by those who manage to remain in positions of power. Much of the reason so many today toil in deception, fear, ignorance is that the history they have been taught is bogus,or at least suspect.
By the way, anyone going to venture an answer to Mark’s question: Which outcome by 2212 is more likely?
Susan,
Your piece was excellent!
Can you imagine a courtroom filled with supporters of justice and healing for victims? I want signs that read:
I’m Catholic and I want justice served.
Susan, I’m praying for you (and others) to not only tell your truth, but to inspire the good people in the pews to action. Keep up the excellent work!
I want “a sign that reads:”
FREE PAOLO!!! Paolo Gabriele, the Pope’s butler, a married father of 3, is being held in a secret Vatican prison. Is he being treated humanely? Has he been allowed visitors and an attorney? Has he been able to see his wife? His children? He is charged with crimes that carry a 30 year prison term. This is serious detention and high state action ordered by the Supreme Pontiff of the Vatican City State. Ask your pastor to SET PAOLO FREE. Not one more dime until Paolo is free. Here is an article that must be read by all, and should be highlighted in a post of its own–Titled, “Why We are Still in the Middle Ages: The Vatican Inquisition Strikes Back” by Kevin Annett. http://itccs.org/2012/05/28/why-we-are-still-in-the-middle-ages-the-vatican-inquisition-strikes-back/
Thanks,Mark, for that and the link. The linked article cites Nixon as a precedent.
Two years ago I e-mailed the pope and cited the likely advice of Archibald Cox, the Watergate prosecutor who brought down Nixon. I worked for Cox while at Harvard Law.
Too bad the pope didn’t listen to me then. What is happening is what I told him would happen.
When the pope failed to reply, I published my e-mail at the Washington Post.
It seems prescient at this point. Here it is:
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2010/04/pope_should_endorse_independent_investigation.html-
OOPS. Please try this link:
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2010/04/pope_should_endorse_independent_investigation.html
In the link he provided, Jerry pointed out that “Concerned Catholics are calling for the pope to set up promptly a commission of informed Catholic lay women and men, nuns and priests, both young and old, married and single.”
Jerry I like you idea but…
Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the Pope are equally unlikely to consent to turning over any degree of power to anyone!
Unless, we first resurrect the old methods used by the ‘Tribunal of the Holy Office of the Inquisition,’ neither one of these guys (yes John Ventorino, the pope is just a guy) will relinquish anything.
Off to the dungeon with both of them!
A bit of today’s Vatican craziness?…they should have taken Jerry’s advice
“I confess: I’m one of the whistleblowers We’re doing it to defend the Pope”
ROME
La Repubblica
by MARCO ANSALDO
ROME – Who are the Vatican whistleblowers? “There isn’t just one brain behind the operation, there are several. There are cardinals, private secretaries, monsignors and the small fry. Men and women, priests and laypeople. The whistleblowers even include cardinals. But the Vatican Secretary of State cannot admit that and has the small fry arrested, like “Paoletto” (as Paolo Gabriele is affectionately known), the Pope’s valet. Who has got nothing to do with it apart from having passed on some letters.”
A suburb in the north of Rome, a table in a bar, traffic passing by. It is lunchtime on a now limpid Sunday morning and one of those behind the flow of confidential letters from the Holy See 1 is explaining how the operation works.
“Those doing it are acting to protect the Pope.”
The Pope? Why?
“Because the whistleblower – or rather whistleblowers, becausethere are more than one of them – want to reveal the corruption inside the church in recent years, since 2009-2010.”
Posted by Kathy Shaw at 8:12 AM
And the link…http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2012/05/28/news/intervista_ansaldo_english_version-36076134/?ref=HRER1-1
Personally I think it’s really rude to blame the butler, when there are so many higher level players…..NCR is having a field day with this and it was the lead NYTimes article…all over the front page and one half of page 3…..,you can’t make this stuff up!
I counted 23 articles in today’s Abuse Tracker on this subject, right now..perhaps a first ‘in volume’.
Thanks, Joan and drwho13.
The reform commission idea was suggested by Fr. Schroth, a distinguished Jesuit educator and NCR contributor. My Washington Post article was intended to get the idea out, and if the pope rejected it, as I expected he would, to move ahead without him. I was unable to raise the funds to organize the commission , so tabled the idea.
I am presently moving forward to set up a reform advocacy entity that will be a kind of counter to groups like Bill Donohue’s Catholic League and will be eligible to receive tax-deductible contributions.
If that works, I will revisit the commission idea.
Also, I am at present encouraging in different ways all Catholics to come out at noon on Friday of next week , June 8, wearing something WHITE to identify themselves, to stand up and speak out respectfully for abused children, disrespected women, including American Sisters, and gay couples, or any of these causes they support, at the rallies planned by the US bishops as part of their narrow election year anti-contraception crusade. The Philly rally will be held at Constitution Hall.
The location of the other June 8 rallies in 133 US cities is available at:
http://standupforreligiousfreedom.com/
Maybe we could hold signs that say…stand up for the victims of priest abuse…we are Catholics too!
Jerry,
Keep me posted on your “reform advocacy entity.” I am very interested.
Are you familiar with the American Catholic Council? How about their “Institute on Non-Violent Action & Reform of the Institutional Catholic Church?”
http://americancatholiccouncil.org/acc-institue-on/
The doc on the above page “From Dictatorship to Democracy” is quite good. Agrues for creation of a strategy to bring down a dictatorship based on proven methods of nonviolent action.
Thanks, Martin and I will keep you apprised. I am very familar with the ACC, VOTF, and similar groups supported by many Catholics. They do great work, but are focused on deliberation and consensus building, which is fine but not enough in my view. A more assertive approach that reacts quickly to push Church reforms , like Bill Donohue’s apologetic Catholic League pushes the status quo , is also needed, which is what I am working on setting up.
From The Catholic League website
“The Catholic League has the courage to speak up candidly and forcefully for the Church when circumstances call for fighting the good fight. The League should be on every Catholic’s short list of essential organizations to support.”
— Most Rev. Charles Chaput, O.F.M. Cap.
Archbishop of Philadelphia
Martin,
That short statement provides enormous insight into the mind of Chaput. After reading it I feel I know all I need to know about the man.
Dr. Who,
I agree. Donahue’s angry affect, hateful speech, and his disregard for the facts… this is what Chaputt supports? Show me who your friends are…
We are all Vatican whistelblowers now.
Mark posted:
“Here is an article that must be read by all, and should be highlighted in a post of its own–Titled, “Why We are Still in the Middle Ages: The Vatican Inquisition Strikes Back” by Kevin Annett. ”
http://itccs.org/2012/05/28/why-we-are-still-in-the-middle-ages-the-vatican-inquisition-strikes-back/
___________________________________________________________________
Mark and all,
I loved that piece at the link. I will have to check out Kevin Annett, as I haven’t heard of him; but he has it NAILED on the nature of the papacy, vis-a-vis its origin and roots in paganism and the roman empire.
Here is a telling excerpt from Annetts piece:
“The Pope is answerable only to himself. He is, under his own laws, both “Master and God”: church and state all rolled into one, all powerful ruler of humanity.
Roman Emperor Aurelian invented that title known as “Dominus et Deus” in the year 273 when he created a new religious cult of sun worship that evolved into state Christianity under a later Emperor, Constantine. For the first time, and ever since then, one ruler was designated as having absolute authority over everyone, and could therefore never be challenged.
Adolf Hitler was a pale imitation.
When Aurelian’s god-emperor evolved into the papacy, Europe inherited a monster called Christendom that would cause more death and atrocity than any force in human history. Sadly, over the centuries governments have accommodated themselves to this monster since historically they arose in partnership with it, and derived their authority from papal sanction.
What Martin Luther called “the two swords” – church and state working in tandem – is still the governing principle that allows so-called “canon law” to supersede civil laws in most nations, with the result that men like Paolo Gabriele can simply disappear with the nod of a pope.
We really are still in the middle ages, in many ways: and we techno-serfs still blindly clamor for justice from institutions run from the top-down by men who consider themselves gods.
Joseph Ratzinger is an expert at making people disappear, having run the papal Inquisition – renamed the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith – for many years. But the very absoluteness of his power as Grand Inquisitor made Ratzinger many enemies, and the latter are gathering nowadays to help expose their adversary.
The details of Ratzinger accepting bribes, for instance, actually came from Vatican Secretary of State archives to which Paolo Gabriele could not have had access. Only senior Cardinals could have released such damning evidence.
“
On checking Kevin Annett out , he is a quite interesting figure.
I watched a Canadian TV interview of him that is quite lengthy, so I will have to go back to finish. He is the author of interesting books on “the indian holocaust.” He is familiar with how “history” only gives us the side of the “winners.” Marks link to Annett’s article was very helpful in elucidating important truths; namely, we should never forget when dealing with faith matters, that the spread of the powers of “Christendom” wasn’t the spread of what Paul called the “gospel of Christ” but was the imposition on peoples of the world of Roman control, the rooting out and suppression of the gospel as found in scripture and the imposition of physical and spiritual control. Multitudes of believers lost their lives or were tortured for their faith in Jesus Christ; just as Annett claims multitudes of Indians were exterminated and had their land and property stolen “because they were not ‘Christian.'”
Amazed, I completely agree.
Most Catholics have little accurate knowledge of how the papacy has misrepresented Scripture and church history to fortify papal power.
The key figure is mainly Constantine, who in the fourth century for his own purposes almost single-handedly took over, in effect, the Church and gave it the imperial and coercive structure we still have, as we watch the imperial factions duke it out today in Rome.
I hope via the new advocacy entity I described above to inform more Catholics in plain language of what scholars now know really happened, but are too often intimidated to discuss widely.
Catholics have little to fear from the truth, but mainly a chance to return to the simple Gospel message.
Jerry Slevin,
Can’t complain about what you wrote as far s it goes; however, I would add a caveat–faithful believers must discover the truth in God’s Word. For too long only a few have done so . Even L:uther only “scratched the surface” so to speak.
Today’s Philadelphia Inquirer on the trial, the prosecution and Lynn.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/155383345.html
AND the Associated Press…..http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hVLFErFdysLng6tJ4SSW582yShsA?docId=6a20068610a34f77b01a1cebd89b000b
AND CBS Philly…..http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/05/29/monsignor-says-hes-sorry-but-blameless-for-teens-abuse-by-pedophile-priest/
From the CBS link….Lynn sees himself as ‘blameless’ ….just following orders and he is apparently proud of the fact that he did a better job than his predessor.
The quote : “Lynn has told the jury he is sorry for the abuse suffered by the teen at the hands of Avery, but he accepted no blame.
Lynn maintains he was powerless to change the church’s practices for dealing with predator priests. As he put it at one point, he was “not the cardinal archbishop of Philadelphia.”
The prosecutor, Patrick Blessington, scoffed repeatedly, “So, again, just following orders?”
But Lynn has also said repeatedly, as an apparent point of pride, that he did much more as Secretary for Clergy than had ever been done before — for example, ordering therapy and aftercare for accused pedophile priests, rather than just transferring them to a different parish.
I was at the trial for the morning session. I will write a blog post when I can get my thoughts together and get my blood pressure back down to normal. There was one point when Lynn answered a question that I am happy I was not the prosecutor..a scene of me flipping over the table and being tackled by court workers is what I envisioned, so props to Blessington for keeping his cool today. A total disconnect from humanity is what I saw in court today.
Kathy sounds like you encountered the crazy making behavior of denial in an enabler……..it comes across as shallow vacant and heartless…………our victims my heart goes out to them they experienced this also.
haditCatholic,
You’re logo has changed, and so has your writing style. Has a troll stolen your ID?
‘your’
drwho13,
I am wondering the same thing is this the same person talking about clericalism all the time?
What happened to the real Hadit?
Will the real Hadit: please stand-up, please stand-up, please stand-up…? (Slim Shady – Eminem)
I welcome all points of view on C4C, except when they are posted by trolls, using MY screen name while I’m in court facing the truth, facing the victims, facing the cool-aid drinkers, and facing the priests who, in a perpetual state of obedience and under the parasitic care of the AD, don’t have to face anything. I blew off more self-important, back patting and smirking priests, today, than I have ever blown off in a single day of my long career of blowing off priests. Lucky for me, they just kept “putting” themselves there!
It’s unfortunate the troll would revert to such an antic. But, since I am always open to learning the mindset of cool-aid drinking trolls, I’m thankful for the incident. It provides yet another window into the fearful and oh so painful little worlds of the sheep coming to terms with their pathetic and colluding “shepherds.”
I need a cocktail before I can blog any more about room 304 today.
Hadit, your troll was totally nonhadit! Please have that drink and my Kathy’s blood pressure descend…so we can hear what happened!!!!!!
Joan,
It took me 24 hours to get your “nonhadit” remark. I think it’s totally humorous and right on target!
Susan and or Kathy,
In the interest of honesty please block whoever used Hadit’s title from further blogging. Maybe you can look up what email they used and block that email. Whoever you are Satan is the father of all lies……….and by using her title you are lying about who you are……..one of the ten commandments also………..Jesus says whoever loves me will keep my Fathers commandments…….at least we know who we are dealing with.
HC, my issue with JV is not his usual irrelevancy, but he sometimes appears insensitive to survivors of abuse, many of whom blog here. That is unnecessary and inconsiderate.
As to the pope, apparently some in the Vatican who know him well love him a lot less than you do!
Tune into to channel 3 and 10 local Philadelphia, Sr Maureen and Irene from justice4pakids were both interviewed outside of court.
Kathy, any way, we who are afar can access it?
Hadit or whoever you are. My problem is not with the churches teachings it is with the men that run the church specially the hierarchy in Philly they act like Princes not Jesus so words alone are not going to change my mind even if they are pretty only words followed by actions like Christ crucified and rose from the dead I realize that is a hard act to follow……at this point i woud take telling the truth and protecting kids and treating victims like human beings.
I was at the trial today. I will also give my insight after I have calmed down. I sat next to Hadit catholic. I met her for the first time, I found her to be smart, charming and a pure delight to have met her. Along with my therapist, haditcatholic gave me a sense of peace and support which believe me I needed today. Not only am i having to hear Lynn pass everything off to Bev but observing all the priests and supporters laughing, patting each other on the back and smiling made me once again physically sick. I will go into more later. Thank you haditcatholic for your kindness towards me and your gentle spirit. What held me together was looking around at all the supporters of survivors, it helped me put some things in perspective. People like Joan and jerry and kathy and Sister maureen give me such comfort. thank you guys and let’s keep up the good faith which is just the plain truth!
Vicky,
More courtroom smiling, laughing and jovial behavior by these wonderful people. What could possibly be amusing? Where is their humanity? Where is their empathy? Where is their concern for the victims? Where is their sense of common decency?
Sorry you had to see these empty hearted reactions.
Vicky,
Truly there are no words that could adequately express how much it meant to me, today, to meet you, to hug you, to sit next to you, and to meet your spirited therapist. You are quite a team! The caring and friendship between you are apparent and deep.
Vicky’s “read” of testimony is sharp! She is on top of every word and action in the courtroom. She sees through it all, enduring every detail because, below it, lies the truth. Vicky hungers, hungers for the truth! How brave she is to put herself in the midst of it!
Everybody knows Brennan, right? Well, his two brothers were character witnesses this afternoon. They are his clones! Hyper, quirky, underachievers.
Ah, Haditcatholic how do you know me so well after just meeting me? Your words so comforted me. I did endure the trial. I do see through every detail and most of all, I so hunger for the TRUTH. When truth is said, my soul heals a bit more, when someone like yourself, so intelligent so compassionate sees in me my need for the truth you my friend are blessed. Truth sees truth. I am honored to have met you and you have helped me heal a part of me, thank you. I wish i could see you one more time while you are here.. If that is possible kathy can get you in touch with me.
Vicky, I know it must have taken every bit of innner strength you could muster up to sit through that testimony today and the insensitivity in the courtroom. I want you to know that I admire you for being there despite how difficult it is. You really are such an amazing advocate and pillar of strength and hope for victims and children. Thank you.
A pure pleasure to have met you that day in court. Thank you my dear supporter you and every one else on this site will never know just how much your support and love means to me. I am no longer alone, I thank God for this gift, the gift of all of you who now stand along side us.
Vicky, it’s a total privilege to support you and thanks for telling me it’s a help!
I hope today’s laughing, patting on the back activities were not too awful…and did not cause you too much pain…glad Hadit and your therapist were there, too!
Listening to Lynn declaring himself blameless, knowing what you know…is a lot to bear! You have my love and prayers…Joan
When all else fails lie hmmmmmmmmm……..that sounds familiar John V. or whoever you are.
HOT OFF THE PRESSES
The Pope’s spokesman said,
“”I consider the publication of stolen letters to be an unprecedentedly grave immoral act,” Becciu told the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano. “It’s not just that the pope’s papers were stolen, but that people who turned to him as the vicar of Christ have had their consciences violated.””
Really? The stolen letters were an unprecedentedly grave immoral act? Really?
They had their consciences violated? Really?
Why don’t you and your supervisor come to Room 304, Mr. Becciu?
This would be funny if it were not the MANIFESTATION OF RAW EVIL.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Ephesians 6:12
The tentative court schedule for the remainder of the week:
WEDNESDAY: No court per se. The lawyers and the judge will publicly battle over how the charges should be read to the jury. This will NOT be behind closed doors, so spectators are welcome.
THURSDAY: Closing arguments. Also, if time permits, the charges will be read to the jury and it will begin deliberating.
FRIDAY: Yes, court is in session on Friday this week. If the charges don’t get read to the jury on Thursday, they’ll be read on Friday and the jury will begin deliberating.
Hadit, are the jurors present on Wednesday?
Also, what was your take on today…if you’ve had that drink, yet?
Hadit, I imagine that on Wednesday there almost has to be a discussion of the Nuremberg defense….I quoted Marci’s piece at upper reaches of this site…the notion that because you had ‘orders’ to do something vs Marci’s point that in a criminal case, the individual and his actions are a matter of personal responsibility….that being told to do something just doesn’t cut it if the something was morally wrong?
What say you?
No, Joan, the jurors are NOT present on Wed. when the lawyers and the judge battle over how the charges will be read to the jury. A lot of the battling between these figures has gone on behind closed doors. But tomorrow it will take place in the courtroom, open to spectators, but it will not include jurors. They were given the day off.
I can’t say that the trial looks like a full-blown win for us. There are issues. I had a long discussion after court with a writer who has attended the trial every day. The writer sees some huge weaknesses. I also spoke with a reporter who confirmed the writer’s concerns. Seriously, unless the jury has totally hadit based on the victims’ testimony and Lynn repeatedly saying he “did what he could do,” there are weaknesses… especially with the Brennan
case.
Marci says it a lot better than I can……..
“Marci Hamilton, a professor at Cardozo Law School who has represented victims of abuse, calls this “the classic Mei Lei defense or the Nuremberg defense.”
“It’s the idea that … as someone who was under orders, the person had no choice as to what they could do,” Hamilton says. “But it’s not a defense to criminal charges because you’re charged according to your actions, and his actions were clearly part of a conspiracy to cover up abuse and to permit these abusers to have access to numerous children.”
Hamilton believes the defense is hoping the jury will acquit Lynn because he wasn’t ultimately responsible.”
Not sure what will happen on Wed… whether the Nuremberg defense will come up. I’ll be attending court tomorrow so I’ll let you know.
I don’t speak for all victims/survivors. I speak for myself only when I say that I couldn’t care any less about the John Ventornio’s of this forum or others like him out there in the world. If I let those types of people run me off, then I would’ve only done 1 protest in my life, and not the more than 160 protests I have facilitated and participated in. The Catholic Church doesn’t control my thinking and whatever I’m willing to do to listen, and protect and fight for people who cannot fight for themselves – mainly children.
Let them sling their irrelevant bullshit. It’s better than being spit on and having objects thrown at you, trust me. “Silence is the hardest argument to refute.” Why give these people the satisfaction or the ammunition to believe they are getting under your skin? They don’t matter much, the way I see it anyway.
It should be enough to know that everyone here is doing something more productive, and everyone here in involved in the greater good of protecting children. That’s all that should matter. The John V’s of the world don’t matter much. There’s a billion of them, and if you try to fight them all, you’re going to take your time away from what’s really important. Is John V. really that important to even warrant a response? Think about it.
Worried about Speaking Up. Where did you go?
Thanks Vicki, Hadit and Kathy for sitting in the combat zone. I ask C4C bloggers to go back to the February/March postings. We worried if the truth would win out. It has. Three Cardinals and at least as many bishops have been shown by a preponderance of the evidence to have enabled priests to prey on children. That is the bottom line.
The “I think I’m having a change of heart…” comment was not posted by “had it.” It was posted by the same person who posts as JV or joey. Using someone else’s screen name is childish and shows an ethical deficit. Technology is a wonderful thing. Everything you do on the web can be traced. JV is now banned from C4C no matter which name he/she posts under.
To Mark:
It feels good to be missed … I am alive and well … diligently reading the C4C blogs … I am an appreciative silent-reader. These days I’ve taken on the task of going through the C4C archives and have found that many of the links are inaccessible for a variety of reasons … pulled off the net, expiry of markers, incorrect URLS, links lost, page not opening etc. I had a hard time opening-up the document on Lynn’s motion to dismiss and the document on the courts response to him, till I realized that my computer memory and speed were at fault. I suggest you all save the articles of interest (digitally or on hard-copy, preferably pdf), particularly the ones I just mentioned as the two documents present different arguments on the same evidence. I found the defence was stretching the truth … a sham. It blows my mind to see how the sheeple still obey the hierarchy after all the damning evidence. I can imagine how the lay-pedophile prisoners feel when they see priests receiving light sentences. Many pew-catholics tell me that they switch off the T.V. when anti-catholic news comes on … that they are praying for the Pope who represents God. Are they worth wasting energy on? I suppose, to them, dissidents represent satan. I am praying for justice and healing for the hurt, injured, and abused. I believe the victims.
Speaking-Up welcome back! I too missed your posts. I love how you end your posts, As a survivor, Thank You!
OK my dear supporters , I promised i would give my take on the trial yesterday. I will need to do this in two parts as my laptop keeps jumping up for some reason.
I’m glad I was at the trial, especially surrounded by supporters for victims. The most difficult part was to watch Lynn blaming, giving excuses and a half hearted apology, with a total moral disconnect of the agony survivors deal with every day-that was done in the name of God. Here’s a catholic priest on the witness stand his words and his actions caused me to think I was looking at pure evil with his lies and excuses and total lack of compassion.
I told my therapist, “I realize I ‘ve been grieving for a long time.” I once loved this church.” I didn’t start dealing with my abuse until I was 40 years old and when I began working on the abuse, my denial, piece by piece fell down and as the shards of truth began to form and transform me, I also began to grieve, slowly, the terrible betrayal of my one time savior, the church.
Lynn represents that betrayal. Yes, he did betray me by promising to help me, telling my therapist he’d get back to her in a week or two when she met with him and requested some assistance with my case. After not responding to her repeated phone calls and letters and after nine months, she wrote to Beviloqua for help. He responded, telling her he’d given her letter to Lynn for a response. Lynn finally wrote, telling her such a request needed to be made to the Camden Diocese since I lived in NJ. We made that request, their reply was “such requests like this are handled by the Phila. Archdiocese. Yes, he betrayed me, betrayed me at a time when I was highly suicidal and desperate.
When I saw him on the witness stand, I remembered, vividly, my year of pleading for his help. Beyond that, with the first 40 years of my love for the Church which I now know was my need for denial so I could just survive-torn down-I now see the magnitude and depth of the betrayal which my denial covered. The abuse by 3 catholic priests and by several nuns betrayed my innocence and trust.The name calling and negativity betrayed my intelligence and self-esteem. Telling me I was raping God betrayed my childlike wonder in the Divine. Thankfully, I tucked away a desire to know truth and God through Truth. They never got to distroy that essense of me. As I write this, I am still reeling in the various levels of betrayal I have suffered and the innocense lost.
Yet, too, I celebrate my new foun d connection to God. I no longer rely on a faith generated by someone else’s experience or belief in God. My faith has been ciltivated through my own connection and experiences with a truly loving, compassionate God who holds me in Truth! It’s complicated, but as I grieve the old Church, the old self,the old God, I’m happy I I have begun this incredibly difficult but courageous journey to eliminate the “middle man” and to be open to a incredible new journey and profound connection with my God.
As a young girl, I took the name of Joan for confirmation because I honored and respected her courage and love of God. I proudly stand with her in our Truth.