Understanding the Vatican Mindset


The U.S. broadcast news, with the notable exception of Cokie Roberts – whose mother was ambassador to the Vatican, seems clueless in regard to the mindset of the College of Cardinals. These insulated men don’t bother themselves with the daily life of the average American.

They are not concerned with popularity or being liked. I can assure you that none of them came up with the idea of the Pope having a twitter account. All this might be fine if their focus was on protecting Church doctrine against decaying modern morals.

Over the course of several hundred years, the College of Cardinals has proven its primary concern is maintaining a Machiavellian grip on money and power. They wield Tradition – capital T – in order to do so. That’s not O.K.

Catholics may not be able to elect the next pope, but they are certainly voting with their feet – as they walk away from the Church.

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111 Responses to “Understanding the Vatican Mindset”

  1. Susan, short of sending aerial advertising, I’m not sure there’s any way to send them a message. But if ever there was time to hope for real change, that time is now. Any ideas?

    • Speaking up often and loudly. Withholding all money from the administrative arm of our institutional Church. Staying and fighting for the Church Jesus intended. I’m up for any ideas. At this point what do we have to lose?

      • Susan, as a perceptive member of a family that knows politics well, you are right on target. The Pope seems up to his last trick here. Please see my analysis, “Pope Benedict XVI and the Next Pope: What’s the Rush?”, accessible at: http://wp.me/P2YEZ3-pv

      • A few years ago, my husband and I met with our parish pastor to say that we will no longer give money to the parish or Archdiocese of Phila. Instead we have privately given money to worthy charities. The Pastor responded with “I’m sorry you feel that way”. That was it for us. We stopped attending weekly mass but really missed that one hour a week to reflect. We started going to a small Episcopal church just to participate in faith. However, I miss the church as I once knew it. Until there is real change, where do Catholics go to worship? I love my faith. I just can’t sit in the pew filled with doubt that the priest is possibly among the many who kept silent or worse, was one of the culprits. I wish there was somewhere to go for like minded Catholics who love the faith but hate the hypocrisy. Maybe “Catholics without collars” would be a good name for a start up group. Maybe priests who are fed up could speak out and leave too. The Church is us. I learned that wherever there are two or more who pray, Christ is present. I doubt He would mind if ordinary Catholics prayed together without robes and vestments. Perhaps every person’s prayer counts equally.

        • Mary… I understand your pain…a few years ago.. just after I learned that my brother and several of my relatives had been sexually abused by our long time parish priest in southeastern OHIO.. I had made a trip back to there, to celebrate my aunt..her 60 years of being a nun……………of course there was a big elaborate Mass, and there was Fr Brown, who had retired by then, standing along side the new priest.. I sat there in the pew, and all I could think about was going up and strangling him… My anger was overwhelming..

          It was not a good experience..to this day, I can not step into any church..!!

          • Wow, that’s enough to make your skin crawl. I know it’s hard. Just take solace that people are listening. They are angry and shocked and feel awful that people have suffered. People are finally waking up thanks to organizations like SNAP and the work of writers like Susan Matthews. They stuck their necks out and faced fury. It’s working.

        • Dear Mary ,
          I know exactly how you feel. It has been 12 yrs since my husband and I left the Institution of the Rcc. We moved away from our old parish, (St.Maria Goretti) in Scottsdale,Az.,where we’d been for 15 yrs., that had 5 pedophiles there, (not all at the same time)… to our daughter’s home in the Denver area and found a wonderful church(non denominational) where we go to. Many ex catholics fill this church. We are the Church.! .
          We found out that all the things that our relatives(who were in religious orders) ,had told us that were too terrible for us to believe , were true in 2001…!.
          .We were in San Diego , where we summered on our boat (to get out of the Az. heat) and the Boston priest, Paul Shanley, who had just retired there, was found (by the police where he had volunteered to do playgroundn duty) trying to recruit an 8 yr. old boy on the school. playground (for his little club, called the “Boy Man Club”) He had bought a motel in Palm Springs, Ca. with his gay friends to use as their place to take the boys to use them.as they saw fit. This tale was played out in the San Diego Union NewsTribune(ad finitum) and more was to come. It fit with everything our relatives had told us..
          We felt the same as you did but were sorry we hadn’t believed our relatives who died way too soon of broken hearts. and left earlier.. I truly believe, it would have helped them.
          . We were the best of catholics and raised our 4 children to be that too. None of them, for quite some time now believe the rcc is “the one and only church” or all the things that were “non biblical” that they insisted we do. They have come a long way, as we have. The Holy Spirit has guided us as HE promised. HE will never leave us or forsake us. Praise the Lord!
          PS.
          . We were married 61 yrs. last. Sept…. Still going strong at almost 84. I’ve been blogging for all these yrs. Sorry this is so long but it’s necessary and there’s so much more I don’t have room to tell you. Be blessed! Pray for the Spiritually Murdered! God loves them so much and so do we.

          • It’s great to hear from another generation on this matter. My kids are high school and college age and I’ve been painfully honest with them regarding all of this. They don’t own the Catholic guilt like I did at their ages and they are actually quite spiritually healthy. In some ways I question if I’ve done right by them by being honest and open and encouraging them to practice the faith as they are comfortable. They eat fish on Fridays in lent, they don’t attend every Sunday, they use language that might make a sailor blush but they are kind and loyal and honest. It is my hope that they will have a faith they can lean on in their moments of anguish as I know those days visit every life. Thankfully, we’ve had CYO sports which, in my opinion, gave the best example of community and friendship in Christ than any Sunday Mass. Keep the faith, my friend.

        • Mary,

          Google “Intentional Eucharistic Communities.” Small groups of Catholics gather in what are sometimes called house churches. Some (most?) find priests who left formal ministry to preside at the Eucharist. Others believe ‘wherever two or three are gathered in my name’ and have no need for a priest. I am not quite ready for the latter.

          I am praying that I will encounter folks in Bucks county interested in forming a small IEC. Praying because I do not know how else to begin to find like souls. There are plenty of married priests around.

          I love the Church but have not gone to Sunday Mass in more than 10 days… the separation is painful.

          Martin

        • I feel as if we are of like minds….I have been searching for the comfort I once thought I had within the walls of my parish. I have have witnessed some unbelievably disturbing things acted out by priests, bishops and rich white Catholic men. My husband and I sit in the back of the neighborhood Episcopal Church to meditate and reflect. What can we do to change an antiquated, beleagured and criminal Church which portends to be founded on the teachings of Jesus Christ? My chidren have questions that I cannot answer. If we can take action before this conclave or before the Catholic Convention in 2015, please sign me up. And maybe flying planes over the vatican to complain about Cardinals who have NO RIGHT to select a pope would embarass the process enough to realize that the people need to select their religious leaders, This is merely my opinion has a saddened “cradle Catholic” from Phiadelphia. Rosemary Nocella Weinstein

          • I am happy to hear your response. We are of like minds. I’d love to discuss more with you!

    • Talk about sending them a message; here’s a message, lighting strikes Vatican hours after pope resigns!

      http://www.weather.com/news/pope-resigns-20130211

  2. Pope Benedict made several apologies to victims who were sexually abused by clerics, etc, within the Catholic church. Yet to this day, he has taken no decisive actions to punish any high ranking church official for enabling, empowering, and covering up sex crimes against innocent kids.

    Many should have been fired. Just to name a few..
    –Cardinal Law, who was given a plush job in the Vatican, is still in that high ranking position
    –Bishop Finn, who is a convicted criminal is still the bishop of the KC-St Joe diocese
    –Cardinal Mahony, horrific cover up of sex crimes per thousands of recently released LA archdiocese secret documents, he is still a cardinal and can now vote for a new pope.

    We hope there is someone within the college of cardinals who could be a pope with integrity, who will start to take immediate actions to stop these crimes against humanity.

    Children are safest when child predators and those who enable and conceal their crimes are held responsible.

    Judy Jones, SNAP Midwest Associate Director, USA, 636-433-2511. snapjudy@gmail.com,

    • While it would be nice to see these men arrested and punished, it is more important that the church take responsibility for the sins of the organization. I have hoped that they would try to initiate a healing process to mitigate the damage they have done. The victims can never be restored to “normal,” but it would be nice if the church dealt with the effects of their abuse including lifelong coverage of psychological problems caused by abuse, job and relationship counseling for the victims, substance abuse counseling, family therapy for the families of the victims, reimbursement of past expenses and some form of compensatory pay when the individual is disabled by the psychological effects of the abuse, and funeral expenses for those who have committed suicide. the bible says that when you injure a persons beast or take an object you must compensate the person for their loss before you can seek forgiveness. Given what the church has taken from the victims, should the church not try to make amends? “I’m Sorry” doesn’t begin to cover the damage.

      The damage cannot be undone, but the financial burden that is placed on the victims and their families should rightly be borne by the church. After the Sandusky verdict came in Penn State asked the victims to come in so the University could discuss what they could do to help heal the damage that Sandusky caused. It is a sad day when the moral code of a football team is stronger than the moral code of the Catholic church.

      • I gave you a “thumbs down” Paradox, because as a victim myself of childhood rape by a Catholic priest, it is significantly more important to me that the men responsible for their predatory actions against innocent children are arrested and removed from society.

        I am demanding justice from my government, not the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church needs to become more transparent and surrender every known child predator within their ranks to law enforcement. Every night when I lay in bed I wonder just how many kids are laying in the bed in this world with fear in their minds, as their bodies tremble and they don’t want to fall asleep, because they’re worried about the predator who will awaken them in the middle of the night. I panic when I see Catholic priests around children. I want to immediately investigate a situation I may come upon where someone is spending too much time alone with children. I don’t f*ck around, Paradox. My journey toward healing and my specific responsibilty as a childhood sexual abuse victim is to do my level best to make certain that if I can prevent another child from any of the hell I had to go through, such as sexual abuse, that life becomes abundantly more important than my own!

        My justice is secondary to the children we should be protecting today! Do you actually think for one moment I would trade my day of vengence for the innocence of many more children? Not a f*cking chance!

        I’m not sorry Paradox, but you don’t have a damn clue what you’re talking about. The real justice in this sitaution, which is well above and beyond, and absolutely paramount to any past victims of abuse is that the ABUSE DOES NOT HAPPEN AGAIN TO MORE CHILDREN!!

        Hasta la wego!

        Rich Green

        • Paradox,

          There’s one thing that fires me up about the entire crisis regarding childhood sexual abuse among private institutions, and while my intitial response was not intended to be a personal attack, after re-reading it several hours later, I now see a completely different side of that response that I didn’t see when I first responded. I don’t want to chase anyone away from this important subject.

          It fires me up when I constantly see the “money” aspect drawn into this argument, whether or not those comments are positive or negative toward victims of childhood sexual abuse. Sometimes I feel as if the subject of money is thrown around so often that it places a title on children who were sexually violated only to grow into adulthood as suddenly people who don’t want to work for a living. That couldn’t be further from the truth. We all want to work and have a normal life just like our relatives and our neighbors. It is true, like you wrote, that part of us will never be restored and many of us struggle with the financial burdens of therapy, severely over-valued and overrated medications, along with a daily struggle of combating depression, anxiety, and fear while trying to juggle the ordinary turbulence most hard working people in today’s world feel just trying to pay the bills. However, I would trade everything I own in a heartbeat for a life of some sort of normalcy. Money may help pay for people to tell me “it wasn’t my fault,” but it will never buy back what was stolen from me. Money might benefit me in figuring things out on a day-to-day basis with professionals and allowing me to survive in the future, but it won’t buy me away from frustration with our government leaders. Also, as I said in my last response, there isn’t enough money in the world or enough gold in the basement of the Vatican to buy me off. I would never trade the sexual abuse of more children for money, or even for personal peace for that matter. I don’t fight for money. I fight to abolish childhood sexual abuse. I fight for changing laws that protect the predators instead of the children. I fight for my own personal justice in what happened to me as a young boy, and for the millions of other victims on this planet, but without changes in how institutions/organizations and politicians conduct business, regardless of my own justice, I will not stop fighting.

          Just one more thing. Penn State is just as complicit as the Catholic Church. It was the football team that allowed Jerry Scumdusky to abuse children. It was a supposedly “legendary” head coach, Joe Paterno, who acted like any bishop would when he knew about the abuse and looked the other way. It was Penn State’s top officials who acted like Vatican leaders when they emailed to each other about children being abuse and didn’t report it to law enforcement. Penn State didn’t invite victims into their school and offer them help at all. That was part of the agreement with the NCAA, which sanctioned the school for its handling (or rather, “mishandling”) of the abuse scandal.

          There are no moral codes in any institution today if it causes the flow of money to become blocked off. Someday, people might just figure out that the world will continue to spin no matter how much money anyone has under their mattress. It didn’t cost “Billy Doe” or “Victims 1 through 10” to tell the truth, but boy did it ever cost the Archdiocese of Philadelphia and Penn State Unniversity to lie.

          Peace out!
          Rich Green

  3. Susan, short but succinct description of what is really happening here.
    Supposedly the Pope will stay in Vatican City, which I think is real mistake, but the other thought is that if he goes back to Germany, he may be summoned to appear in some of the trials of the sexual abuse victims against the church so as to describe the thought process behind all the secrecy and confidentiality imposed on bishops and on victims.

  4. Can he name a successor ?

  5. I thought you were going over to the anti-Catholic view in a post in December, but now you have convinced me, you are not a Catholic any longer when you attack all of Church leadership. I am a distressed Catholic, but I am still fighting for change in my religion.

    • I’m Catholic. Always will be. But I’m not the Pope’s kind of Catholic. I’m not the current College of Cardinals version either. Could there be individuals in the leadership who represent Jesus? I hope so. But why haven’t they spoken out? I am still fighting for change in my religion, too. I don’t want people to walk, but they are. I’m just not one of them.

      • Susan, if you don’t mind wearing Chaput’s red dress since he will no longer likely need it, I will nominate you as Cardinal. You don’t have to be ordained to be a Cardinal, although they may have rules that reserve red dresses for men. lol

        You would make a great Cardinal as you already have made a great Catholic!

        • Thanks for the vote of confidence, but it’s a huge administrative job. Not my cup of tea. I don’t diminish their responsibility in any way. I just wish the system allowed real spiritual leadership to trump financial goals.

    • Look up the word religion. We shouldn’t want to have a religion”…Jesus wants us to have a relationship with HIM. So HE can say. YES I KNOW YOU!
      Not”I NEVER KNEW YOU!”

      • So HE can say. YES I KNOW YOU!
        Not”I NEVER KNEW YOU!”
        Right. And you had better believe that it is Faith in Him alone that brings that “relationship.” Without that … it will be “Depart from Me, I never knew you.”

        • Religion is really the opposite of what Jesus Christ is today. No religion in the world has what Christ offers the faithful believer, i.e., the gift of eternal life, not based on what we do, but on what we believe He did. One can reconcile all this with the bible if one desires, but one cannot reconcile this with any religion including Catholicism.

  6. Kate FitzGerald (hadit) Reply February 12, 2013 at 12:04 am

    On CNN, Cardinal McCarrick, the former Archbishop of Washington, referred to Benedict’s resignation as “extraordinary, stunning, and historic.”

    Over the years of Benedict’s papacy, I sat on the edge of my seat, begging, hoping, praying, and pleading that the pontiff would deliver something, anything, “extraordinary, stunning, and historic.” I mean I thirsted and hurt so bad for it. I can hardly describe the experience of wanting it and never getting it.

    Does anyone know what it feels like to finally get it in the form of “I am resigning”?

    • Kate, Please look up McCarrick on BishopAccountabilty.org. Any possible change must frighten him.

      It really gets better, Kate. The truth is the Pope is being forced to resign.

      And if the full truth be told, a tenacious group of bloggers at C4C pushed to get the first member ever of the Catholic hierarchy convicted of child endangerment. That was one of the key turning points. And Billy’s courage made sure Avery didn’t spring Lynn. I hope Billy is smiling tonight. He should be.

      Be patient, now. You have all achieved things that two years ago seemed impossible. We really are making progress. Trust me!

      • Jerry, I really can’t believe he is being forced to resign. Why would they bother?

        • Susan, prosecutors are steadily moving in, especially in Australia and the Int’l Criminal Court, with more to follow.

          Benedict frightened voting Cardinals recently by blessing the public shaming of Mahony, thereby encouraging LA prosecutors to try to go after Mahony. Many other Cardinals with abuse problems had to be shocked and troubled. I think it was done for US political reasons: Mahony leans Democratic, and is important among Latinos. Gomez is an Opus Dei Repupublican and the Pope wants more Latinos voting Republican.

          Now the Pope can get out unexpectedly and get a quick vote on the successor that has been hand picked by himself and the Vatican clique, before any opposing candidate can get organized.

          And he is 85 years old and tired. He never at 78 years old should have run, but egos are powerful drivers.

          Please read my latest remarks linked above for more.

      • Not only is he being forced to resign, it will be intersting what faction will cough up enough money to elect the next pope. My top 3 are the Sicilian mob, masons or the devil, himself. We may have to wait Las Vegs puts their choices on the table.

  7. Mary, you put into words exactly the way I feel. I too have left. First started with not putting in our envelope, then finally just stopped going to Mass. I also went to an Episcopal church which was so warm and welcoming, but my Catholic guilt kept me from going back. I wish I knew what the answer was. I doubt anything at all will change with the next pope.

    • Katie, No more guilt! You’re free. What do you WANT? Look at us catholics… We’ve been conditioned to settle for whatever crumbs are thrown our way. We have no input or control. Even the state of being female is frowned upon. Lol! Our worship is not really “ours” and it comes with all sorts of drama and craziness.
      You have found a “warm and welcoming” atmosphere in which to worship. That sounds like a great thing! Anything short of it is insane.

    • Katie, Thanks. It’s easy to say “walk away from the Church” but it’s more than just the priests. I keep my faith in my heart and try to live a good life. I treat others as I’d want to be treated. I was lucky to have some fabulous, kind nuns who walked the walk and were great teachers, both academically and spiritually. I am not afraid to question what I’m told. I do feel sorry for those who blindly follow and believe. Although, I wonder if ignorance is bliss. Maybe for them, but not for those who were betrayed and it is for those victims that I won’t condone silence any more.

  8. There’s the exceptional Cokie Roberts—smartest woman in the world. Didn’t I read that she had a perfect SAT score? Attended ultra elite Stone Ridge School of the Sacred Heart? Has she ever met a Western friendly dictator that she didn’t like? She was born with a silver foot in her mouth. In regard to Catholic Sister Diana Ortiz–who was raped and brutally tortured by the U.S. supported Guatemalan military while Cokie was slurping down brie and Chablis at political receptions all over Washington—
    http://www.democracynow.org/2005/10/12/sister_dianna_ortiz_details_her_abduction

    “Roberts challenged facts and assertions in [Sister] Ortiz’s account during a 1996 interview with Ortiz on the TV show ‘Nightline.’” Meanwhile, “Roberts’ brother, Tom Boggs … was under contract with the government of Guatemala to promote a more positive image of the dictatorship in Guatemala.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cokie_Roberts#Interview_in_which_she_alleged_Sister_Dianna_Ortiz_was_lying_about_being_tortured

    What kind of person would attack a torture victim on television? If you’re looking to give to a real Catholic cause, here’s one—
    http://tassc.org/blog/

  9. Susan,

     

    Fine analysis of narrow-minded thinking of ancient men with ancient rich robes, carrying ancient rich “sticks” with angular rich miters. Yes, they are the force forcing the Long Catholic Line of ex-church-going young adults who now follow their own conscience. These Ole Boys Clubers march in a parade of their own pompous self-gratification towards a cliff like biblical animals and fall off. These ecclesiastics are much like Biblical Pharisees and Sadducees and Scribes who pray in public with people watching to win self-centered praise.    

     

    After President Barach Obama’s re-election, these all male private club members have discovered how little people listen to their bigotry and Cosa Nostra direction.

     

    Joe Hill 

  10. No Susan, “they are not concerned with popularity or being liked.” They are supposed to be revered and feared as your moral leaders. Presidents don’t make decisions based on how popular they are or how many people like them. Religious and political leaders, as I know them, make decisions based on what “they believe” is necessary regarding their own policies and morals. For instance, most Americans believe there should be no Statute of Limitations on child sexual abuse, as founded in a poll by CNN during the Penn State/Jerry Scumdusky scandal. However, based on a political leader’s personal beliefs and policies, the SOL remains in place.

    I never liked Rev. John M. McDevitt. He became popular in several schools in a handful of different states by young boys, who eventually issued him with a nickname, “Father ‘Up the Butt’ McDevitt,” and that name endured throughout his profession of teaching. I revered McDevitt when he protected me from the gay-bashing bullies at school, who often called me “faggot” and threw doughtnuts at me in the cafeteria. I could never work up the courage to walk down this long and narrow hallway in the cafeteria to the vending machines to buy a soda with the bullies who hung around that area of the school. So… I mostly sat at a round banquet table by myself, or with another kid who was bullied because of his bad haircut and handed-down sweater with our school’s emblem on the left breast pocket, well at least until he found out he could gain some approval from the bullies by picking on me too. McDevitt became my hero for a little while and took interest in me like no other person had at Father Judge High School and it made me feel good. He put his arm around me and walked me down to the cafeteria to get a soda and walked me back up to his classroom. No bully said a word, because they feared the consequences of crossing a chosen man of God.

    I began to fear McDevitt when he started touching me in a way that didn’t physically feel good and contributed to the confusion my brain was already suffering. His physical touch became very sexual and eventually bordered on violent and sadistic. I DIDN’T LIKE HIM!!! In fact, I was scared shitless of him. I cannot remember a single instance in which he touched me and it didn’t hurt. When he pulled my head closer toward his body while he was forcing me to perform oral sex on him, I felt like I would pass out. I couldn’t breathe because the force of his hand on the back of my head pushing himself closer into him was cutting of oxygen to my lungs. I choked. I wanted to throw up. I was extraordinarily scared when his crushed one of my testicles because I threatened him with telling my Mom, because I thought I didn’t need his tutoring anymore. I wanted to get away from that man and that school more than you could possibly imagine. He raped me in the boys bathroom at school, and I hid the evidence of blood-stained underwear in the bottom of our kitchen trashcan at home so my Mom wouldn’t find them. I pretended I was sick so I wouldn’t have to go to school. I was having panic attacks in the morning and my Mom thought I was faking it so I could stay home sick. I threw up on Septa buses when I didn’t feel ill or had any kind of virus. I sat on the steps of the ballfield across the street for 25 minutes before school started, staring at the building and praying that time would just stop, and I wished I was older so I didn’t have to go to school anymore.

    FEAR is what priests prey upon. They want to instill fear in children so they can control them for a lifetime. I couldn’t tell anybody about the hell I was going through every day. I wanted to die. He told me this is what gay guys do with each other. He told me that I started it and it was my fault. He told me it was my “JUG” (Justice Under God) to be raped by him. He told me that since I was gay I should just get used to it. The worst part was, I believed him. 😦

    Priests don’t give a damn whether people like them or if they’re popular. They care only about reverence and fear. That’s how they get the control. It’s all part of the grooming for abuse process, and whether you’re a child or an adult, they need to find a way to groom you and abuse you until they get what they want. After that, you’re treated like trash and thrown in the gutter.

    I wish I was King.

    • I believe that most of us have a close family member who is gay as I have in mine. It breaks my heart as a mother to read your messages sometimes, especially this one. To experience the intolerance that most of you suffer through much of your life is inconceivable. Then when some acceptance and kindness is sought and turned into sexual abuse by a priest or some other predator must be horrifying. Having that have happened to that gentle gay person in my life or any of my children would have made me crazy. Thank you for the strength you have in continuing to keep us enlightened. I wish every catholic could learn from you.

      • Thanks, Mare!

        Just know this – I make a bad fag. I really do. I’m not out there on the frontlines arguing with whether or not our government wants to call it “gay marriage,” or “civil union.” As long as my partner and I have the same rights as heterosexual married couples, you could call it “Dudes & Dikes Alliance” and I really wouldn’t give a damn.
        Besides, I think it would be kind of cool to respond to a person who asked me if I was married to say, “Yes. I’m in a Dude Alliance.” 🙂

        I just think there’s more important problems in this world than how I feel about a term applied to a relationship so that everyone can have a piece of paper to convince the world, that as a couple, they love each other.

        Just consider though that most children who are bullied are not sexually abused. However, most children who have been sexually abused were bullied.

        I think it’s more important for us to consider the vast amount of injustices there are in this world, because if the statistics are correct, there are 25 million Americans who had some type of unwanted sexual contact before they were 16. Those numbers only reflect victims who have reported the abuse. I’ve heard estimates of up to 75 million Americans have been sexually abused. The numbers aren’t going down either. If this country and this world continues on the current path there’s no estimating how many dead souls will be blindly roaming around in the future.

        I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, “The world doesn’t need more people like me.”

        Thanks for your kind words, Mare. It really means a lot to me and it gives me a great boost today.

        Peace out!
        Rich Green

  11. I am grateful to all those working for accountability for child abusers. I have been following events pretty closely for several years, but there’s one thing I don’t understand. Why would anyone involved in this struggle still expect the Church to do ANYTHING positive?

    To the best of my knowledge, not a single member of the hierarchy worldwide has ever done a single constructive thing they were not forced to do by the courts — civil and criminal.

    Isn’t it time to move away from this horrific, regressive organization? If you are seeking something spiritual in your life there are many alternatives.

  12. S. Reid Warren, III Reply February 12, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    I used to comment at this C4C site that there was too much hand wringing and not enough righteous indignation, action and even revolt. The Vatican, and therefore The Church will never change from within. If there will ever be change it will come from without. I believe Susan’s first two comments on this page are a move in the right direction. Rich Green – don’t attack others who have good intentions.

    Reid

  13. “The prohibition against allowing homosexuals to work around boys is common sense. The Boy Scouts do not even allow this: “The Scouting organization simply refuses to allow what the Catholic Church has allowed – to let known homosexuals occupy positions of authority and trust, positions too easily and too often used to prey on vulnerable young people.” (‘Pedophile priests’ and Boy Scouts, David Kupelian, May 8, 2002)”

    https://www.tldm.org/news5/seminaries2.htm

    ” In 1983, he made his famous trip to Central America where his clerics held a number of positions in the left-wing government. John Paul II publicly scolded Ernesto Cardenal. In private, he negotiated the ex-communication of Miguel D’Escoto, a Jesuit who’d joined the Sandinista’s government with permission from his order. In 1984, the Brazilian Franciscan Leonardo Boff, a brilliant liberation theologian, was summoned to the Vatican to answer for his latest book. In it, he used Marxist language to critique the Church and analyze its mission. He was silenced, forbidden from speaking or publishing his work. Ultimately, Boff felt compelled to leave the priesthood

    “http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/pope/etc/bio2.html

    Seen the scars of those who were tortured in Central America and remembered that the sexual abuse problem was blamed on the gays ( and still is.). Those poor men were afraid that they would be killed before testifying in front of Congress.

    Sorry, can’t let a bunch of old men out of touch with reality elect my leader They continue to mislead their flock with misinformation.

    I guess they didn’t clean out the sexual abusers ( Our Lady 1976)

  14. S. Reid Warren, III Reply February 12, 2013 at 11:01 pm

    In regard to the previous comment, I believe that it is very important to understand that pedohiles who rape boys, are not necessarily homosexuals. Were the abusing priests homosexuals? Was Jerry Sandusky? Are fathers who sexually abuse their sons? Invariably abusers are not homosexuals. The ready availability of altar boys, sons, gandsons, Boy Scouts, young male students and Little League boys are why men abuse them.

    Reid

    • If you had left off after your first sentence I would agree with you. After that you wander off the reservation. Pedophiles are not necessarily homosexuals. They get off on control, power, position and domination over a child who is not in the position to fight back. They attack girls as well as boys and they seek out targets who are in difficult positions or dysfunctional families. This is not about “ready availability”. It takes time and effort to groom a victim. This is about a dedication to the rush that they get from committing sexual crimes against children.

      I was raped, repeatedly, by a trusted priest when I was 13 over the course of 9 months. He worked me for a few months, convincing me I was nothing. Convincing me I was the one making these horrific things happen. When that stopped working, he threatened to move on to my little brother, he told me my mother had given him permission to do what he wanted. He told me that god allowed him to do the things he did. He threatened to summarily expell my siblings from school. He finally threatened to kill me if I spoke up, assured that I would not be missed. I wasn’t available, I was cut from the herd. I was a project, a conquest.

      There are men out there, including most priests, who do not commit sexual crimes against children who are available. There are teachers, coaches, fathers, grandfathers, and scout leaders out there who would never dream of harming, in any way, the children who are “available” to them.

      Pedophiles are a specific kind of monster. They are predators. Be they straight or gay or somewhere in between, they are criminals and they need to be dealt with immediately.

      • Michael,

        I was thinking of replying with a similar post to yours, but I couldn’t have said it better. Way to go!

        Isn’t it creepy, Michael, how we all hear a similar version from, specifically, “predator priests” about why they can abuse us? I am convinced the seminary has a manual that teaches priests how to groom and abuse children. I don’t believe two people, who have never met, and were abused by different priests could tell the same story of grooming and the things our predators told us to keep us quiet unless there’s a school for scumbags and they’re all taught exactly the same thing.

        He physically hurt me and threatened to do it worse if I every told anyone and he threatened to kill me.

        He had me convinced without a shred of doubt that God wanted me to do these things with him.

        He threatened to fail me in his “Religion/Human Sexuality” class and make sure I was held back a grade, if I didn’t do what he wanted and kept my mouth shut.

        He threatened to turn me loose on the bullies. I struggled with self-hate, because he told me it’s “what gay guys do with each other” and I thought my sexuality was the reason I was abused.

        Worse thing was, I believed him and sometimes I still do. That’s some of the most difficult hell to get passed.

        Thanks for speaking up, Michael. You are my brother.
        Peace out!
        Rich Green

      • Michael stated, “He finally threatened to kill me if I spoke up…” That’s no exaggeration!

        “Ex-priest convicted of trying to hire hit man to kill abuse accuser”

        http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2012/05/ex-priest-accused-of-hiring-hit-man-to-kill-abuse-accuser-testifies-he-thought-his-life-was-in-danger.html/

      • Michael,

        Sad, but so true to read your account.

        You said it perfectly.

        “A project….a conquest,.”

    • Thank you Michael. Sorry to read of your pain
      The Church and the Boy Scouts both use misinformation to unfairly attack gays. They (RCC) also used “gay” treatment to treat pedophiles. Sorry, I can’t explain more – brain (stroke is in a fog now).

    • Again mislead their flock with misinformation. They attacked gays in the 80’s and continue today.They make gays an issue and not attack the issue – sexual violence by priests. Check the links in the above article, pretty much anti gay.Rome’s response is the problem.

      Guess a few people will need to change the rating – I don’t like the article,

      other link”

      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/pope/etc/bio2.html

  15. S. Reid Warren, III Reply February 13, 2013 at 11:56 am

    To Michael and Ed. We all come at this issue of pedophilia from different experiences. I didn’t go off the reservation. I wanted to clarify that 20 years ago most Americans were convinced that pedophiles of pre-pubescent boys were homosexuals. That is no longer the case except for The Boy Scouts and The church which continue to malign homosexuals. My point was simply that with all of the villification by religious “leaders” and politicians of gay men, they don’t need to be blamed for most of the sexual abuse of little boys. ’cause it ain’t true.

    Reid

    • For what it’s worth Reid, I understand what you’ve said.
      Isn’t it time to end the “availability” of children in the RCC? Maybe this religion is an adult concept which isn’t completely appropriate for kids. Much of the doctrine we introduce to catholic kids runs contrary to what we strive to teach them in daily life. In all other areas, we urge them to use logic and intelligence. We teach them how to thrive in a democracy, to be tolerant and fair. But in catholicism, we ask developing minds to accept concepts which conflict with science and logic and fairness….(ie..the idea of asexual human reproduction…the idea that we are guilty of sin before we are even born…the idea that a substance can be mystically transformed into something else…the idea that a third party can and must “forgive” our sins…The idea of telling kids that priests are somehow in a higher position with God than their dads are…and are definitely higher up than their moms! … The idea that they have no choice but to accept and follow without true understanding, all the teachings and mysteries of the RCC, or they’re damned…)
      Too often catholic “teachings” and practices were deviously used to groom young, potential victims who had no ability to put them in context. IMO, the laity has a responsibility to change this flawed system.

      • Hello Crystal.

        I would welcome the comments of Father Wintermeyer on this particular post.

      • Joe and Crystal, When I was in my early 20’s I spoke to a priest about some of the issues you mention. His philosophy is that the Church is scared of people who question, reason, think, ask,probe etc..and we are left with robotic like members because of it. He felt that the ones who question may actually be more invested in the Faith than the pray,pay and obey crowd. He also had strong feelings about clericalism and priest being put on a pedastal and the reverence of the flock towards the parish priest. I always remember he said that a Catholic who says they believe 100% of the Church teachings or doctrine,probably does not even understand the religion. He is still around,is rather conservative and now a Monsignor and the pray,pay and obey crowd drive him crazy.

        • Kathy, does this Monsignor have a parish? I’d travel to go there.

        • Mary ,don’t get your hopes up. Although he talks the talk,he doesn’t walk the walk. Exactly what he says the laity is doing wrong is what he then turns around and feeds into himself within the Church.
          Also he knew of an abusive priest and although it is very hard to distinguish if he was helping the victim rather than hiding the abuser in that particular case,he has been around a long time and was an insider in the AD…so I take that for what it is worth. I can reflect on a conversation that was productive but realize that although he is more open than many priests in acknowledging the problems, he is doing nothing to change anything. I gave him a chance last year where his influence could have made an impact on a situation with a victim..he failed.

          • What a shame. It amazes me how they don’t stand up and say “I won’t be party to this madness”. That’s what I’m looking for. One priest. Just one priest with a clean background who will just blow the whistle and say ENOUGH. One who is willing to risk it all. Does anyone know of a priest who has done this? I’d like info if you anyone has it.

          • Mary,
            Tom Doyle and former priest, Richard Sipe, and former monk, Patrick Wall. There are others.

            But, look what happened to each of them. Sipe is out and so is Wall and Doyle was treated like the plague by the brotherhood the moment he wouldn’t sit down and shut up about the violation of children.

            Fr. Tom Doyle helped create “The Manual,” which outlined a comprehensive way to deal with this. It had victims at the forefront, accountability, etc. That document is lost in the secret files for certain.

            As for all the other priests, they lack courage and their strength rests in the hierarchy instead of their supposed Lord. I don’t doubt there are some good qualities in some of the priests serving their parishes, but they are not true shepherds. Shepherds find the one lost lamb. They don’t abandon their flock. These yahoos have done both and all for the sake of self. What an example they’ve set.

        • kathy, Yup…any person or institution which requires that we “power down” our brains at the door, by never challenging, questioning or disagreeing,… it’s pretty safe to assume they’re up to no good.

          • From Kathy’s link…
            “… In recent days, I have been confronted in various places by very unhappy people. I could understand the depth of their anger and outrage–at me, at the Church, at about injustices that swirl around us…Thanks to God’s special grace, I simply stood there, asking God to bless and forgive them. …Strangely, the more I allow all of this to unfold without protest and objection, the greater the inner peace I feel..” -L.A.’s Roger Mahoney
            ___________________________________________

            Sounds like he’s got himself cast as a christ-figure …He simply stood there and asked God to forgive people for being angry that children were molested and raped ??…Perfect example of RCC drivel.
            Wasn’t he fired?… How is he blogging as “Pastor Emeritus” of LA?

          • Kathy,
            Mahoney reminds me of Lynn…even in the face of it all…he dodges responsibility…”swirling around us?” He doesn’t even realize how ridiculous he sounds, does he?

            He puts a beautiful spotlight on how inept and blind they are to what is “swirling around them.”

    • Reid, sorry, just making sure my comment was understood as showing the anti – gay stance that I was dealing with in the early 80’s in DC, not commenting on you remark. The rating comment was not intended toward you but just in case someone misinterperted my intent.

      Also, DRWho13 I am not a psychologist, just expressing my opinion. Your comment about confession looks interesting, but trying to comment on what affected the RCC when I was a religious in the 70′-80’s in DC. When I asked about why priests asked probing questions about sex in the confessional – I was told to tell the gravity of the sin – right.

      • I want to make a contribution to the discussion ed and drwho13 were
        having. First, the reason the Church says homosexual acts are sin is because they can’t find a way to deny what is plain in the bible concerning those acts.
        Next, When a pedophile molests a child, it is a homosexual act , at least when on the same sex. The molested male then is introduced to the experience and some may later on either continue with homosexual activities as a result of this “initiation” or leave that ‘orientation” to follow heterosexual paths. As with apparently MANY children, I was molested by a stranger in a movie theater. Of course I was unable to deal with it at the time because of fear and confusion; but I know that I was affected by that experience. Note:
        Parents— do not allow your children to be in a situation such as I was in [alone in a movie house]. Things are different today, that was back in 40’s, but I am sure there are similar situations where predators can approach children and not be detected by authorities.

        • “Next, When a pedophile molests a child, it is a homosexual act, at least when on the same sex.”

          Nichols1, your statement is by definition a mater of fact; there’s no valid way to argue to the contrary.

  16. Crystal…You have really said some important things for people who have children who are still attending functions ( besides mass) on a weekly basis. I have grandchildren who are 17 and 13 (boys) who still attend things(boy scouts as one) at their parish, that are not attended by their parents.. The parents are just at a point of not knowing what to do. They (as a family) are very into prayer and a daily relationship with their Lord and do not snub those other christians in their midst…. but it’s so hard for them to explain that it all may not be TRUE. They (the boys) know their grandparents (us) have a “beef” with the rcc. but don’t know details and the parents don’t want to talk about it.

    Mary, you are doing it right I believe. I just wish I knew how to broach the subject..Maybe the fact that the Pope is quitting will give them a reason to bring up the subject and explain the” real truth” to them. The laity has a responsibility to use the “good minds” that God gave them. I guess along the way I surely bought all the” hokus pokus”. .But HE was always there with us and guided us.

    We were such elitists. We thought we had it all and no one else knew the things we knew. How arrogant we were and the whole RCC is arrogant !! But… most especially the clergy are un-equalled in thier arrogance to all they come in contact with. They are bold to the point of asking for money or things when they want them bad enough. They are taught to get what they can from those that have it. I always found it to be exceptionally rude and just ignored them.
    I have given it all to the Lord and know HE has come through so far! The Pope will be gone! THAT IS SAYING A LOT! Now we can talk. PTL!

    • Glorybe1929…………we were such elitists. I always was very fond (???) of the phrase, “fallen-away”, when describing those Catholics who left their faith. I never was kicked about that description, but what about, given today’s realities within the Catholic Church and its leadership, what phrase would describe those individuals who now have chosen to leave their Catholic Faith?

      • Michael …I guess you would call us the “chosen ones”. I don’ t know, that just came to me.

        • Glorybe,
          I would like it to be different, but so many of the Catholics upset about the Catholic clergy and child abuse don’t have the truth of the Word of God to turn to; and then on the other hand , some are not upset and just “rot in the pews.”

          Those who don’t believe the word of God and leave the church are no better off than if they stayed.

    • Glorybe, i offer only problems and no answers. I so agree that arrogance is the hallmark of the RCC.
      As for your adult children… It’s so hard to abandon such a big part of family life while the kids are still being raised. Good parents recognize the need for continuity and consistency. Life’s complicated..and too often, our options are few. It’s easy to tell ourselves we can wait it out ’til the kids are raised, before we address our feelings toward the chuch. For many of us who were not victims, the church represents happy memories, peace and security and permanance. It’s easier to stay in denial. But then there comes a moment …

  17. GloryBe and Crystal–You are the voice that is sadly lacking in the church. That is the voice of fair minded, common sensed, mother-inspired, protective, courageous women. You go ladies!

    • Hey Mare, Glorybe is probably all of those good things you list. As for me…well, I’m just plain pissed off! ( but i thank you anyway. lol)

  18. Don’t I wish Crystal…Thanks Mare for the compliments..but indeed, that’s not what the Lord wants for any of us…HE wants a people who KNOW WHO HE IS AND ACT ON HIS WORD….AMEN?

  19. Who said “Look up” Intentional Eucharistic Communities?” I looked it up. . It seems to me to celebrate(Communion), that there has to be a priest there(no longer affiliated with the RCC) to do something no one else can do. This IS part of the “big” problem” In the RCC ….The introduction again…. of the” mystical body of Christ by a “man”
    Didn’t Fr. ( I can’t remember his name right now, the canon lawyer) say… The Eucharist was an impossibility! That no “man ” can turn the wafer into Christ’s body( into real flesh), or the wine into his blood for you? If our faith was so strong as that …we could do it for our selves but “no person” can do it for you….mystically or whatever. It is not a transferable thing , no matter how we wanted to believe it. I’d really like an answer to this ? PS I don’t wish to offend any one by this question .I believed and knew Christ was there( in communion) with me. But because of “My Faith”…no one elses. I still have and believe in Communion with HIM.

    • Glorybe,

      This issue about the need for an ordained priest is debated and prayed about in Intentional Eucharistic Communities. Some conclude they must have an ordained priest. Others conclude that the community gathered in the name of Jesus is sufficient. And, of course, there are choices made beyond this either/or option.

      Before the Church was Romanized, Christian communities made their own decisions about what was best for them. So, I admire these groups for struggling with this difficult issue. I would not want to judge them by imposing a “right” answer on them since I don’t want to be like the Romanizers who provide THE definitive interpretations of scripture and tradition. I am working on the deRomanization of the Catholic Church 😉

      Martin

      PS You would like the new Garry Wills book, “Why Priests? A Failed Tradition”

      • Martin, The “De-Romanized Catholic church” …The Choice of a New Generation -?

        • No need to “De-Romanize” the catholic church, simply join the Body of Christ. Martin Leahy et al, it is not being like “Romanizers” to let the scriptures teach the scriptures. Please let me demonstrate: In this passage (I Corinthians 11) Paul is writing to believers whom fit the same category as us today, i.e.,
          they were mostly Gentile believers, a few Jews maybe, but had believed, not Judaism but the gospel Paul preached (Note verse one) . They followed Paul ,not the Kingdom of Heaven on earth Jewish gospel preached by the 12 to Israel. In this passage Paul recounts not what Jesus said at the “last supper” but what Christ from heaven later said to Paul. The ONLY MENTION IN THE BIBLE ABOUT THE BODY OF CHRIST IS IN PAUL’S LETTERS.

          1 Corinthians 11
          King James Version (KJV)
          11 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

          2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

          3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

          4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

          5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

          6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

          7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

          8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

          9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

          10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

          11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

          12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

          13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?

          14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

          15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

          16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

          17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.

          18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

          19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

          20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord’s supper.

          21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

          22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

          23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

          24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

          25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

          26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come.

          27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

          28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

          29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.

          30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

          31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

          32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

          33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

          34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.
          There is no mention of “transubstantiation” nor of “priests” etc.
          If someone object: “Those were later additions”, let him acknowledge that it is not in God’s Word, which may not be “added to.”

  20. http://www.bishop-accountability.org/seminaries/

    http://articles.mcall.com/2009-07-05/news/4401397_1_seminarian-seminary-officials-two-priests

    The Obales ran two schools in Philly. We don’t know the influence of this congregation on the lives of their students and the effect of abuse on those who wish to become your future priests. McDevitt(sorry for continuing to bring up the name) had contact with so many during the summer while exposed to this guy during the school year:

    “In an interview with The Morning Call, John GR Doe said the ”culture” at the seminary, along with the alleged assault, led him to leave a year later. Doe said he reported to two Brisson officials — Seif and O’Connor, the current DeSales president — that a priest used a key to enter his locked room in the middle of the night in January 1985 and performed oral sex on him.

    Seif said Doe relayed that account to him immediately after the incident. Seif said he then asked the priest if he did what Doe claimed he had and that the priest said, ‘yes.'”

    from the Morning Call article. This guy had that key when I visited in 1970’s and was known to “visit” rooms.

  21. The depth of the narcissism is stunning.

    Cardinal Mahoney is a victim who, like Jesus, is praying for those persecuting him!

    Mahoney: “In the past several days, I have experienced many examples of being humiliated. In recent days, I have been confronted in various places by very unhappy people. I could understand the depth of their anger and outrage–at me, at the Church, at about injustices that swirl around us.

    Thanks to God’s special grace, I simply stood there, asking God to bless and forgive them.”

    http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/mahony-i-feel-humiliated-disgraced

    • Martin I read the Mahony’s blog post several times . Yes he is praying for those who express anger at him for the crimes against children..maybe praying for the children who were the victims of the crimes would be the better route? and he may want to throw a few prayers in there for himself for the day he meets his maker. No, he will just forgive these angry people, after all they are the ones in need of his prayers and forgiveness.. It really could be used in a textbook in a study of narcissism.

      • I also love this quote “I could understand the depth of their anger and outrage–at me, at the Church, at about injustices that swirl around us.” Those darn swirling around injustices..no it is crimes against children documented in 12,000 pages . If Mahony actually did understand their anger he would not have written this blog post where he is the victim. Can you imagine the CEO of Carnival Cruise writing about forgiving the angry passengers on the recent ill fated cruise?

        • Kathy, truth is – he does not understand. This is important information, as if we needed validation… after all these years some of those bishops still do not, no, can not understand. I think it was Richard Sipe who described this as situational narcissism, a disorder acquired by most who rise up in the episcopal ranks. Martin

          • Martin this is an institution that you are better off dealing with the lower rings..the ones who did not make it up the ladder,there is usually good reasons they did not advance.

          • Pithy observation Kathy.

            Sent from my iPhone

      • Mahoney is praying for those who are angry with him??!! What a haughty, arrogant thing to say. Like they are beneath him and most in need of his prayers?

        No, Mahoney…we are praying for you. Praying you have a change of heart, an awakening, before you stand before God and have to account for the role you played in turning children away from Him. Oh how I must pray for him. What a pathetic mess of a man.

    • Kate FitzGerald (hadit) Reply February 15, 2013 at 6:37 pm

      I just ran into my parish priest at a restaurant where I was having lunch with a co-worker. The priest came over to our table. I greeted him and introduced him to my co-worker. My co-worker, not I, asked him what he thought about the Pope’s resignation. His response was: “Their have always been Catholics like Kate who have spent their lives tearing down the Catholic Church. Now, the same people are using a humble resignation to tear down the Holy Father’s papacy.”

      Infuriated, and almost paralyzed by it, I was at least able to throw out as he was departing our table…

      “How unfortunate, Father, that you have never met a victim.”

      • Kate, and ‘they will know we are Christians by our love…’ What an angry man!

      • ( kate, didn’t you have anything left on your plate to throw at that moron?)

      • They are threatened by your mere presence Kate. Keep up the good work. He didn’t answer the question, did he?

        Humble resignation…not quite.

        If I may quote Lion King…”I’m surrounded by idiots.”

      • Kate FitzGerald (hadit) Reply February 15, 2013 at 10:58 pm

        Martin, can you come to my house for the weekend? You have such a calming influence.

        Crystal, decades ago, I threw chicken noodle soup. As we speak, I’m looking at the stain it left in my oriental rug. Haven’t thrown anything since. Thrown people out, but haven’t thrown any thing…

        Survivor’s wife, he heard it loud and clear but he didn’t respond.

        Thank you, friends.

        • Kate, I received a letter a few years back from a priest that said something like “your intentions are good but your actions are destructive” because I was advocating for the protection of children. My “destructive” actions were getting the AD to implement some policy in an area that had been previously unaddressed. I was “blind rage” angry and tore it up and threw it away..so mad now that I did that because I wish I had the letter to put in the center of a collage that I will make after I am finished having the AD use most of my child safety policies and procedures..His letter could have been the centerpiece,surrounded by all the policies and procedures I had implemented. A testament to my “destructive” ways.

          In these situations I have my husband’s wicked sense of humor to help me..his dead on comical impersonation of this letter writing priest ,showed me I gave way too much weight to this priest’s opinion of me…once my husband brought me back to reality by saying “who is he and why would you ever care” Exactly..I don’t..at all.

  22. In the past several days, I have experienced many examples of being humiliated. In recent days, I have been confronted in various places by very unhappy people. I could understand the depth of their anger and outrage–at me, at the Church, at about injustices that swirl around us.

    Thanks to God’s special grace, I simply stood there, asking God to bless and forgive them.

    Over the coming days of our Lenten journey I hope to explore with all of you some deeper spiritual insights into what it really means to take up our cross daily and to follow Jesus–in rejection, in humiliation, and in personal attack.

    Strangely, the more I allow all of this to unfold without protest and objection, the greater the inner peace I feel.

    Kyrie, eleison!
    Quoted from Cardinal Mahony [from Kathy’s link.]

    Well … I know about the “reproach and persecution” believers in Christ are said by Paul to gladly suffer, but this situation with Mahony? If I am to take his blog seriously, he is being “humiliated” for Christ. Does that mean Christ is involved in the coverup? Good grief man.
    Explain!

  23. Kate FitzGerald (hadit) Reply February 16, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    “Understanding the Vatican Mindset”

    The Huffington Post reports that there are efforts in the Vatican to move the anticipated March 15 date for the conclave up a week or so. But there are clear and distinct guidelines regarding a conclave. There is to be “a 15-20 day waiting period after the papacy becomes vacant” which, in the case of Benedict, will be on Feb. 28. Therefore, the conclave, technically, cannot convene prior to March 15. Rev. Lombardi, a Vatican spokesmen, today, was quoted as saying that the 15-20 day waiting period is “open to interpretation.” Really? In my opinion, it leaves no room whatsoever for interpretation. Since when is the Vatican “open to interpretation”??? Clearly, when “interpreting” serves those interpreting. Since I am all for Jerry’s recommendation that the Cardinals convene a world-wide consortium of experts from every discipline, having the sole purpose of confronting every aspect of the crisis and evil in the Catholic Church, and remedying each of them prior to convening a conclave, regardless of how long it takes, I object to an even more hurried conclave than the one originally anticipated on March 15. Sticking with the March 15 date at least gives the world another week to articulate the extent of the corruption and evil in the Church. Cardinals need to hear it! Hmm. Maybe this is the real reason behind moving it up a week. Maybe their purported reason, that the conclave could linger too close to or into Holy Week, putting the squeeze on clerical duties, is only a front. Maybe, in reality, they are afraid of how another week of “criticism” will further put the squeeze on them to DO something about the corruption and evil.

  24. Kate FitzGerald (hadit) Reply February 16, 2013 at 4:54 pm

    There is nothing the Cardinals would like more than to quickly divert the world’s attention away from all of the corruption and evil. Magical white smoke, black smoke, and the

    • Kate FitzGerald (hadit) Reply February 16, 2013 at 4:59 pm

      oops. Surely, you catch my drift…

      • What I would like to know is this…………Will the smoke, black or white, be visible here in Philadelphia, particularly for the jurors sitting in the jury box in the upcoming trial of Father Brennan, starting in the first week of March?

    • Mahony will be voting for the the next pope, and the current pope will not be able to leave Vatican City after Feb, 28th without fearing arrest! Kate, is that part of what you mean by “…all of the corruption and evil.”?

      What kind of institution am I a member of? Why am I still a member? Indoctrination has a powerful effect on human behavior. What else could it be?

      • Kate FitzGerald (hadit) Reply February 17, 2013 at 1:53 am

        I know why you’re still a member, drwho13. You’ve said why a number of times on this site. Your wife, remember?

    • Always like the Washington Post but lately wonder. Write an article like that but not interested in an article like this:

      “Oblates attorney Mark Reardon said the protective provisions will apply “wherever members of the Oblates of St. Francis de Sales are in ministry.”

      Most of the Oblates on the list have died. Four are still alive, but are now removed from ministry. Two live in Washington, D.C., two at the Oblates’ retirement facility in Childs, Md. Greenfield said the four are closely monitored.

      But Neuberger noted that one of the Oblates was transferred from Maryland to India to work with children in an orphanage after allegations were made public.

      Wrote to WP about abusive priests in DC, no response. Get more response from the Philly papers. Desales Hall is a “large house” not far from the national shrine. Yes transferred from Maryland to work in India with children.

  25. The three pillars of the Catholic Church are: Scripture, TRADITION, and Magisterium….without them we do not have the means for arriving at the Truth….

    • Kathy, I don’t disagree, but some Traditions have changed with time. For just one instance, Mass is no longer said in Latin with the priest’s back to the Congregation.

      • Magisterium is the teaching authority of the Church, and has been a little shaky lately, unless one believes in “do as I say, not as I do.”

        That being said, Tradition (big ‘T’) can not change, but traditions (small ‘t’) can be changed at anytime. Three persons in one God is Tradition, male only altar servers were once a tradition.

        • Married priests were once the traditon too.

          But never was the rape of children a tradition.

          We don’t “arrive” at the Truth. Truth just is. It is from those who have the courage to seek it, speak it and share it.

          We have to ask ourselves if the spiritual leaders of the rcc have the courage to speak the Truth.

          I believe the victims.

          • SW,

            Spiritual leaders of the rcc that have the courage to speak the Truth, there were some, but B16 tossed them out!

  26. http://www.womenpriests.org/classic/prusak.asp

    The Apostolic Tradition of Hippolytus of Rome Don’t remember Jesus putting women at the end of the line. Don’t think he would sit quietly as children were abused. What tradition are we discussing? Jesus had a unique ministry to women and children. He treated them as equals.

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