Supporters for HB 1947 will gather at 8am and noon on Monday at the Capitol steps (3rd Street between Walnut and North) in Harrisburg. Monday is the day senators will meet for hearings on the constitutionality of the bill.
Supporters for HB 1947 will gather at 8am and noon on Monday at the Capitol steps (3rd Street between Walnut and North) in Harrisburg. Monday is the day senators will meet for hearings on the constitutionality of the bill.
You are asking folks to support an Bill that the archdiocese of Philadelphia is opposed to. It seems to me that your so called “Catholics for change” is a group whose agenda is to completely destroy the Catholic church.
Jim Stanger: So you don’t like the name of this site. Perhaps you could start your own blog.You could call it “Catholics 4NoChange”. You could then advocate for the rape of innocent children. You could advocate for covering up the rapes by transferring the Perpetrators from parish to parish. Then you could advocate for attacking those who were abused Then to top it off you could attack those who want to change the Church to prevent such abuse. But then you really don’t need to do that. Archbishop Chaput is already doing that for you.
No Jim Stanger the local catholic leadership in Philly has been completely destroying the spiritual life of Philly catholics for years without any help from us. You should be angry at the number of surivivors that don’t believe in Jesus or God for that matter. You should be angry at the loss of hope……the number of suicides and drug overdoses and that many children that have lost one parent. The loss of vocations due to kids being molested that had hoped to be a priest one day. I am angry and I am heartbroke over the stealing of faith that goes along many times with sexual abuse by clergy. As if the sexual abuse wasn’t enough now they have their hope in God stolen too. My faith is the most in important thing in my life and next is my family. I go to St. Bedes for adoration on a regular basis the same church that recently had a standing ovation after the priest read the letter from the Bishop. I also go to confession on a regular basis because I am nothing without God’s grace. I say these things because were should I go if the catholic church is destroyed in Philly? Jesus has promised us the church will never be destroyed. We might end up like the apostles with no buildings, no grand cathedrals, no expensive art and palaces like kings but none of that was ever promised to us and never belonged to us. It will all remain here after we die. But what is eternal is Christ and heaven and our souls. So don’t tell me we are here to destroy the church. I love Jesus in the Eucharist more than anything so much so I would gladly die for him and in away I find I am dying in humility now because I am afraid of standing up and speaking up for the truth and I was afraid speaking up for survivors at the St.Charles meeting but I do it for love of my neighbor and of Christ. I ask him everyday to use me and show me his Will. I am imperfect I know this but 6 yrs ago Christ told me I would be doing this. Standing up for the most vulnerable and for our surivors many who have lost hope. As I said before if that puts me in conflict with my Archbishop so be it. It isn’t the first time or the last for this to have happened in church history. Some Saints have even been excommunicated. I hope over leaders repent. When they realize all they really have and all they really need is Jesus that’s when amazing things happen. All I see in them now is fear. I understand fear so do our survivors. Sometimes despite our fear we need to do the right thing. I am hoping and praying that the church, our survivors and lay people are restored to a faith in Jesus because Jesus is truly amazing and in the end it is and has always been about souls. I will leave you with this verse from St. John Chrysostom ” the floor of hell is paved with skulls of bishops”
Well said, Beth.
It seems to me that their agenda of”catholics for change is nothing other than to destroy the Catholic Church
I return to these pages to join C4C faithful in their good hopes for passage and their satisfaction that some politicians with guts are standing up— finally!. They (c4c regulars) certainly have been fighting this fight for many years as I have observed from time to time.
Susan, currently a victim of child abuse can file with law enforcement up to the age of 50, and the abuser will face a criminal trial and hopefully go to jail. This legislation , HR 1947, is designed to extend “civil ” suit only, not criminal and it includes Sovereign Immunity.The bill is poorly crafted and only a few attorneys and fewer victims will benefit.I have been very vocal and active about the Church “cover up” of this crime that in Philadelphia Archdiocese dates back to Cardinal Dougherty, but this legislation, HR 1947, will do NOTHING, to prevent children from being victims in the present or future. Joe Gable
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
Joe can you expand more on saying that the Bill is not designed to extend criminal statutes? It is not trying to be criminal retroactive as no criminal statutes can be retroactive..what do you mean that it is not extending criminal statutes? I know you are always informed so I am thinking something is getting lost in translation here.
Catholics 4 Change: If you are looking for justice for all children, this is not the bill. I am amazed that the legislators promoting it cannot see how limited it is. Are they looking for justice for victims or limited justice for victims? Can we not support the children molested in public schools?
Theresa Haggerty: You are absolutely right. This bill is limited. In order for a bill to pass , all legislation is limited.One reason this bill is limited is because the Archbishop of Philadelphia has complained in the past about trying to defend against decades old abuse cases. So Representative Rozzi in crafting this bill settled on the age of fifty as a compromise. This was an age I believe was used in Massachusetts. I am sixty seven years old. I was molested by a Catholic priest at the age of twelve back in 1961.So I will not be eligible under this bill to file a claim against the Archdiocese. I am indeed being limited by this bill. Do you think the Archbishop had me in mind when he objects to this legislation? I can assure you, he does not.He will throw anything he can against the wall hoping it will stick.If he were an honest man,he would admit that all of these objections were simply an attempt to thwart justice for innocent children,past , present and future.
I have been involved in legislative efforts for the past few years, and the fact that the Church, as well as parishioners are coming out of the woodwork claiming to be concerned about children abused in public schools is possibly one of the most sickening things I have witnessed..using a group harmed as children as a leverage chip when it bolsters their argument.
Where have they been in proposing legislation for children in Pa? Where have all the Catholics been out in force demanding that all children in Pa be safe?
Do people in this state have any idea that sovereign immunity is not something that the government drags out to attack the Church but is in fact something that affects so many areas of everyday life. If you feel strongly about sovereign immunity in this issue then you should feel strongly about how it can affect all lawsuits in the state when people who have the bad misfortune of being harmed or injured and the differences that come into play with public.vs private. The archdiocese should be organizing rallies to protest sovereign immunity across the board on every single issue where people can be treated differently ..but they’re not, they are just suddenly concerned with kids abused in public
schools. Please, any Catholic yelling about the unfairness please do not ever sue another driver if you are hit by a car..first check how sovereign immunity can affect people hit by police cars and then make sure your own lawsuit copies those restrictions exactly so that you are not unfair to others who have been hit by cars.
And why are leaders from other religions in Pa.supporting this legislation when they could be sued?
Demonstration for Revival!!!
Monday, June 13, 8am-1pm
CAPITOL STEPS ON 3RD STREET BETWEEN WALNUT AND NORTH STREETS
Harrisburg, PA
Who: Child sex abuse survivors, families, friends, and advocates
Bring pictures of survivors as children and posters in support of HB 1947
Kathy,
Clearly three individuals who were given a glass of Kool-Aid and drank it. We have seen them before maybe with different names but always with the same motto: Let us bring up the crimes of others to minimize our own.
Dennis the other thing is this Bill would COVER children abused in families..which is what the Church always points to..that many/most children are abused within the families/homes. Then Chaput says this Bill excludes most victims..how is that possible? How can one group be the most abused but when included in a Bill they now claim the Bill excludes most victims.
Also people do not understand that even though the laws have changed over the years the statutes from the year a person was abused are in place. Hopefully the following excerpt from an interview with Mark Rozzi will explain that.
.ROZZI: Put yourself in my situation. In 1984, when I was in that shower getting raped, I had only two years civilly and five years criminally to come forward. I was age 13. Number one, I didn’t even know what a statute of limitation was. And number two, I wasn’t going to tell anybody about that because the embarrassment, the guilt, the shame that would be brought upon me from my friends, my family. Now, when you suffer this type of trauma, you don’t forget. The church would want us to forget. But victims don’t forget. They’re going to need to be held accountable in the end. That’s the bottom line.
Kathy,
I am trying to remain civil through all of this and I have been praying to God to help me along the way. BUT, when I read from three individuals who most likely got their marching orders in a email or telephone call within the last 24hrs to attack C4C a group of people who have helped me greatly I have a problem with that.
You have one individual who clearly cannot think on his own because he believes if you are catholic you should not or have a right to question the archdiocese. If parishioners continued to think the way this guy does clergy abuse by the local priest would be rampant. This same individual claims C4C is out to do nothing but destroy the church must not read C4C to much. Since I have been posting on this blog C4C has done nothing but see the wrongs be righted and shockingly by the very people who have a right or want to see the catholic church burn to the ground. The victims, the family of victims and their friends. So this guy should be thanking people like those at C4C for they are the reason he has a church to go to.
Then you have a young lady say we should be concerned with the abuse in public schools. Rightfully so everyone should be concerned with abuse everywhere. But if she has come to C4C to fight against this Bill becoming law because she believes it will effect the church I say to her you should worrying what is happening in your own house before you worry about someone else’s.
I truly want these people approach Chaput and ask him what he truly fears is it the money or is it all the potential victims that may come forward ?
Dennis,.do not think you have to defend Susan or me..these comments mean nothing to us. I try to shut it down because there are so many victims/survivors.family members who come to the site and these people won’t even let you have a place on the internet to gather..really is it too much to allow people who were harmed to have a place?..apparently so.
As for what people fear, I can only speak for myself,there is no way in hell ( that I am going in on my judgement day with an argument about constitutionality/,unfairness of House Bills when it comes to kids who were raped within in the Church. As Rep Miccarelli said he would rather be chastised from the altar than be damned for blocking justice. I was never taught in 16 years of Catholic school to have Pennsylvania law be my moral compass. If the roles were reversed and sovereign immunity protected the Archdiocese, we would all be asked to write letters making sure that was not disrupted.
And to all who come to the site claiming that they are concerned about ALL children..fantastic..what have you done in the state of Pennsylvania to protect all children? Susan and I have..the advocates and politicians we advocate with have. I had important language added/clarified to an amendment concerning mandatory reporting that will help all reporters of child abuse in public or private institutions. Susan formed the first PAC in Pa. dealing with child abuse related issues. Please all feel free to share what they are doing other than jumping on their keyboards to accuse of attacking the church..you feel strongly about protecting kids…then get out there and do something.
I am at a loss for words right now at some of the comments being made by people who oppose this bill – read philly.com but be warned. Rather than make logical arguments about the bill, many have taken, including the Archdiocese, to bashing victims again for being con artists, drug addicts, only out for money to feed big spending or addictions, intent on bankrupting the church and schools and parishes. There have been email blasts – postcards to legislators sent home with school children as “homework” – politics from the pulpit – and that infamous commercial I am waiting to air as I watch the Phillies or a sitcom.
I have insisted on calling myself a SURVIVOR these past 3 years but, I honestly feel like a victim this past week – beaten down.
I passed a Christian Church that sits across the street from my house on the way home from work yesterday. They advertise quite heavily in my neighborhood – welcoming to families – to newcomers – and, for the 1st time in 8 years of living here – I thought I might check it out on Sunday.
And I dread the backlash – whether this bill passes or not – for it if does, these tactics will be ramped up 150%. And if it does not, gloating.
Owlfan: Please don’t get down. I really admire you for finding your voice at such a young age. It takes most of us much longer. We must remember that we are fighting against one of the most powerful institutions in the world.It has used that power for both good and evil. Unfortunately both of us have seen it used against us for evil. Unfortunately my own mother would be one of those assailing us if she were still alive.When at the age of forty, I went to talk to her about the abuse,she consulted with her local pastor. He was able to convince her that I was against the Church.Doesn’t that sound familiar? My relationship with her was never the same.That is what this horrendous abuse has done. It has turned parents against children and children against parents. It has turned Catholics against Catholics. And the Archbishop does what Bishops and Archbishops have been doing for years:.Defending the abusers,attacking those abused and trying to stop any justice for all those kids.
Owlfan: I would like to pass on one more bit of information.In February of this year, I attended what is called a healing circle. This was a one day event held in a private home in the Germantown section of Philadelphia. If it were held at a Church myself and other victims probably would not attend. It is sponsored by Voice of the Faithful.It consists of a group of some twelve to fifteen people gathered in a circle. These have been held in cities like Boston, New York and Chicago.It is based on the concept of restorative justice.If one member of our society is injured, we are all injured. It is based on concepts that were developed in South Africa, dealing with the aftermath of Apartheid .Only one person is to speak at a time and everyone else is expected to listen deeply to what the person is saying. In the group that I was part of ,there were two or three survivors, two priests and the rest were lay Catholics,, many of them cradle Catholics.There was one facilitator. His name was Bill Casey. He was a graduate of Villanova and extremely gifted in what he was doing. There were a range of questions dealing with the sex abuse crisis and each participant was invited to share their life experiences in answer to each question. For me, it was an intensely spiritual experience. For only being one day, it was a very healing experience. If any survivor gets the opportunity to attend these circles, please do so. Anyway the main point of this post was to let you know that there are Churches in Philadelphia that are more caring towards victims of abuse, their victims and lay people concerned with victims. The Church that many of the lay people there attended was St. Vincents in Germantown. It is run by the Vincentians,not priests of the Archdiocese. One lady was saying that there was a support group for parents of abuse victims. Maybe if you are looking for something within the Church, this would be a place to consider.
I meant their families, not their victims
Here you go. Go to Bing enter Greenwood Christian Church Livestream.
Services start at 5:30
Wish I could join you on Monday in Harrisburg. Good luck and I hope you have a decent turn out. What would Jesus do? I think He would do just what you are doing. God Bless
owlfan don’t let the commentors hiding behind screen names on phillly.com get you down. Read and take a look at the video..this is awesome. http://www.phillyvoice.com/philly-archdioceses-push-against-abuse-bill-reminds-councilman-spotlight/
and this ..never did I think I would open a newspaper in the heavily Catholic populated Delaware County as see this headline on an editorial http://www.delcotimes.com/article/DC/20160608/NEWS/160609686
For those who follow the site from outside the Philly area this is a major shift in local Church culture..major. Don’t you think so Jim,owlfan and Dennis?
One of the very first advocates I met a few years ago said the only hope is when people stop believing/being controlled by the bishops. Kate Fitzgerald where are you?? This is right up your alley..the clericalism is being exposed and called out!
Kathy: You are absolutely correct. There has been a dynamic shift in the public perception of what sex abuse does to a child and the damage that has been done by the Catholic Church to its victims.For this bill to have even made it to this point, is an incredible shift. For the newspapers, the politicians and others to actually stand up to the Catholic Church is an astonishing change. To see many in the laity stand up to the Hierarchy is an incredible accomplishment. To hear a city councilman citing the movie “Spotlight” and daring the Archbishop to come after him is astonishing. What movies like “Spotlight”, The Grand Jury Reports from Philadelphia and Johnstown/ Altoona have done is to educate a population that had been deliberately kept ignorant by the Catholic Hierarchy. The Archbishop is feeling the sand shifting beneath his feet. He does not like the feeling. So he lashes out in even more terroristic threats than he has ever used before. I have not demonstrated since the sixties.Then it was against the Vietnam war. I will be there at the twelve noon rally. Eight o’clock is a little too early.
Jim, I loved everything that Councilman Greenlee said in the video and when he spelled his name at the end and said put it bold with an exclamation point it was such a powerful message.
I am sure politicians etc have been chastised by the church for years but NOW when that happens they are turning the tables and calling the church out publicly…a strategy that worked for centuries is falling apart..and so many of their strategies won’t work for one minute with the next generation. The Bill of of course is up in the air, but a strong message was sent to the Archdiocese this week .
Jim: thanks for your clarifications and explanations. I have not been personally affected by these Church misdeeds, but feel a sense of outrage nonetheless, particularly on the horrendous sums of congregants’ money the bishops are using to cut their exposure. Political activism on the part of the Church just seems to take on more and more ugly and sinister colorations as it marches on.
Jim, I hope I get a chance to meet you. I will be there as well.
Beth: I also look forward to meeting you and the many others who support victims of sex abuse. To make it a little easier, I will be wearing a red Phillies shirt.
Ok great. Thanks sounds like a good plan.
Jim It was great to finally meet you today.
I am sorry I can not attend the rally in Harrisburg on Monday. Letting you know that St Ceciilas in the Northeast sent home with each student a stamped postcard to mail saying they don’t want HB 1947 to pass. That parish was the site of one of the most horrorific abusive priest Fr Briscki (sp?) My prayers are with all of you and praying for the passage of HB1947.
Nancy O’Brien; That really infuriates me . Using children as conduits to stop legislation that would protect children. Not all that long ago, those same children would have been at great risk of being abuse victims. Only the Catholic Church could stoop that low.
Are there 2 rallies or is it a continous one 8-1:00?
Suzpt: From what is posted at the top of this page there will be rallys starting at 8o’clock and then again at noon. This is also on the email I received from SNAP.
One rally at 8 am and one at noon
Kathy, Jim, Suzpt,Beth, I WILL BE THERE AT 8 A.M.! I am making copies of my poem to hand out, if nothing else just maybe I can touch their hearts.
Vicky, Looking forward to seeing you as well. Thankyou for all your efforts to educate us on this site. Thankyou also for your courage. It has inspired many of us including myself and for that I am grateful.
Hope the Rallies help ..!! I would be there but I live in New Mexico . I will say a prayer for all of you !! God Bless You All For Doing What You Do🙏🏼
Sorry, the earliest bus out of here is 12 pm.
Surprised the so many forgot the OJ trial where a civil suit was filed after the criminal trial. Rape survivors in the 70’s were asked to bring civil suits against their attackers after being raped a second time by the justice system. How many priests have been found guilty or even had a trial? Tell those people in Dallas,Tx how the church is protecting children, should we start naming places like Eastern Shore,Md or put kids at risk by allowing priests that offend to reside near a school.I felt really great realizing after on grand jury report that the kids I was trying to reform were getting a different message from one priest. Still, like to know why child services contacted me years after the RCC took over the kids case thinking I was still helping the kid.
It is a shame that so many child victims and their families could not get a fair shake in court and because the Catholic Church and the insurance companies won’t shell out a few bucks they won’t get a second chance in civil court. That second chance is needed with a crime that takes advantage of a child’s innocence and gives them a life sentence. The grand jury reports show that the justice system failed the kids also,How many were so afraid that they could not face their abuser. Since many (non survivors) are adults you have no idea what it is like to go face to face with a child sex abuser as a child. I will never forget that day as we worked home from grade school and he was there and my friend went into a corner and wept. Another time in high school a person with a gun wanted to rape a young girl, won’t forget that day either. Do people just want to put their head in the sand and pray that this problem will go away?
Because of the recent rapes of a 4 and 10 year old and the HB 1947, I am on overload as triggers for so many have been activated and just the mention of child rape seems to have too many people crawl into their shells.I wonder how many are missing the feelers that so many give because they need to talk about what happened so many years ago. How many, because of this letter from chaput will never tell their friends and family what happened
Please, if you are in pain, try to find someone to talk about what happened
Clericalism– “is an overriding set of beliefs and behaviors in which the clergy view themselves as different, separate, and exempt from the norms, rules, laws, and consequences that apply to everyone else in society.” Clericalism is the entire cause of the sexual abuse crisis in the Catholic Church. Offending clerics did not cause it. Rather, the resulting priestly secrecy, silence, collusion, and cover up did. The ongoing failure of the hierarchy to accept accountability for its sins and crimes, re-victimize survivors by impeding passage of HB 1947, dodge justice, recklessly spend the faithful’s money on lobbyists, propaganda materials, and legal dream teams, jeopardize the protection and futures of children, manipulate and threaten the people in the pews with erroneous information, and call into question the integrity and Catholicity of Catholics, public servants, and lawmakers who oppose its unconscionable agenda is clericalism at its “finest.”
Truly, this is a profound moment in history. As Kathy noted… centuries-old “clericalism is being exposed and called out!” The long and painful curse of Catholicism– clericalism– is being unmasked, confronted, and condemned.
The comment posted by Jim Stanger in this discussion thread evidences the faithful’s role in enabling, maintaining, and fostering the plague of clericalism. Clericalism cannot prevail without being in partnership with people in the pews who are willing to act as its infantile, subservient, ill-informed, irrational, and fearful pawns and hostages.
Because clericalism unfolds in the domain of religion, it is likely that people will always be willing to act as its pawns and hostages. There will always be sheep willing to breath life into it. Don’t look for the death of clericalism. Rather, look for a schism in the Catholic Church.
Kate FitzGerald
Will be there with my Tutningpoint sign
So very glad to meet my friends here for the first time in person in Harrisburg! There for each other and the kids
Suzpt great to meet you as well. I wish we had alittle more time to talk.
Hello Suzpt, It was such an honor to meet you today on the steps of the capitol in Harrisburg. I too wanted to spend more time with you to hear more of your story but by the time we met for the afternoon rally, I was exhausted! I had been up since 3;15AM in order to meet Beth and be at the AM rally by 8AM. I know you understand. I did not get home until after 7PM in NJ. Perhaps soon Beth and I could meet with you for lunch and just chat. Please continue to be self-caring towards yourself and know that a lot of people on this site truly care for you.
Thank you so much for reaching out! I felt do mych love and connection with all the survivors i was privleged to meet today. Unfortunately this looks like a long battle so no doubt we will be out on the front lines again soon. Bless you all 3 for coming so far. It was just an hour for me each way and am spent
Hugs all around!
Checked the WGAL website. News about a fawn stuck under a vehicle, but nothing about today’s events in Harrisburg. Where are their priorities?!
Please everyone on this site visit Foundation to abolish child sex abuse and use the tools available on that site to get the work out about this bill. There are flyers you can print out and leave in stores and community centers and articles, fact sheets and videos you can send thru fb, social media etc. Thankyou for helping get the word out on this very important bill.