Quote Sums Up Why I’m Still Catholic


“How much I must criticize you, my church and yet how much I love you!
You have made me suffer more than anyone and yet I owe you more than I owe anyone.
I should like to see you destroyed and yet I need your presence.
You have given me much scandal and yet you alone have made me understand holiness.
Never in the world have I seen anything more obscurantist, more compromised, more false, yet never have I touched anything more pure, more generous or more beautiful.
Countless times I have felt like slamming the door of my soul in your face – and yet, every night, I have prayed that I might die in your sure arms!
No, I cannot be free of you, for I am one with you, even if not completely you.
Then too – where should I go?
To build another church?
But I cannot build another church without the same defects, for they are my own defects. And again, if I were to build another church, it would be my church, not Christ’s church.
No. I am old enough. I know better!”

– Carlo Carretto,  from “I Sought and I Found”

Thank you for sharing this, Father Chris.

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66 Responses to “Quote Sums Up Why I’m Still Catholic”

  1. Susan,
    That’s one of my favorite quotes of all time.
    Dick Taylor

  2. The church are the People not the institution. It’s not the church we want to embrace but Jesus. The church will fail us, Christ will not. Always place your trust in the Lord Jesus Christ anywhere. Read Henri J.M. Nouwen’s “The Life of the Beloved”.

  3. To be Catholic, to be what we were brought up to be is what we want to hold on to: the joy we had when we were innocent, the knowledge that our church’s work was in line with the will of God is what we believed and what we respected and expected.
    Our church is ruled by men, men who have the same dignity before God as we have. The Bible, the Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles, the Letters of St. Paul, form the very basis of our beliefs. We have ideas on what our church should be. We, along with and equal to the hierarchy are the Church. We know humans can err, we know humans can be forgiven, we know humans can change. We want our Church to respond to us as humans equal to the hierarchy; we want to be heard and be responded to as equals.

    • It’s beautiful. It’s Carlo’s experience and truth and must resonate with so many.

      I can’t help but feel sad for all the survivors where that excerpt is a luxury they simply may never have.

      It does help me understand why so many remain. It’s a neat quote. It makes sense…if you haven’t been the ones abused.

      • It was taken from them and that’s what makes the abuse so heinous and evil.

      • That is exactly what I thought when reading it – how many of the victims cannot share in the sentiment because of the horror they experienced. I have met victims who left the Church years ago and others who still practice the Catholic faith.It is not up to me to judge how people choose what is best for them. I know even one of the directors of SNAP is still a practicing Catholic-in an interview she said “she won’t let them take her faith from her”.
        For me as a Catholic who is not a victim I read things like this and the words ring hallow.If we are talking about basic human flaws that exist in every person,clergy and religion – that I understand. But the horror of child sex abuse is not just a flaw or a scandal.

  4. Kumbaya, Carlo.

    God gave you simple rules. If the bishops and priests that run the church don’t follow those rules, it is your duty to God to remove them and replace them with bishops and priests that follow simple rules so that future generations will still have a church.

    Future generations won’t be stupid, and they will read about this and someday wonder why anyone stayed in the Catholic Church Of Convenience, where the bishops and priests committed thousands of the most heinous crimes imaginable, but the congregation would have had to do some work to fix it. Future generations will see that the Internet and social media made it easy. They will see that Egypt and Libya did it in the face of death, They will see that the Catholic congregation went along with it.

    You aren’t going to die fighting this battle. God couldn’t have made the battle simpler or clearer. Get rid of the bishops. Fight harder.

  5. Father Chris or whom ever wrote this originally needs a good therapist. A really good therapist, one who has a good track record with those who are suffering from co-dependency.

    • Amen George!

    • If you had read it through you would know that spiritual writer Carlo Carretto wrote it. It clearly says that at the bottom – before I thank Fr. Chris for sharing it with me. Something tells me you had your mind made up before reading it. And that’s fine. I respect people’s thoughts and feelings in regard to their faith. You might want to consider doing the same – especially here on “CATHOLICS4Change.com.” I will admit it takes work to remember the difference between the institution and the faith. But that is what this site is about.

  6. Try and read this to “Michael Unglo” a VICTIM from Pittsburg who committed suicide when the catholic church stopped paying for his therapy ! I am free of the church and its sexual abusers and enablers !!!!

    • Just read it. Horrible story, and it’s the exact same story you can read about thousands of young, innocent children who were unfortunate enough to be brought up in the Catholic church. He would have been such a great contribution to society otherwise. Makes me sick.

  7. I made two assumptions. The first was that the poster endorsed the thought. And the second was that their mental state of confusion was due to co-dependency. In which case they definitely need a good therapist. If you do not have an open forum you are free to cancel my subscription. I already deal with more closed minds than I care for. I was not criticizing them, I was offering good advice to mixed up people.

    • This is an open forum but as I’ve noted it’s for respectful conversation among Catholics. However, all are welcome here. Calling those who endorse this post “co-dependent” is an insulting assumption. Attaching a blanket label is not civil or open minded. That would be like me calling people who can’t distinguish between the institution and the faith “confused.”

      • Susan, the Truth IS! For about 1000 years Catholics in the pews have been the victims of a confidence game orchestrated by the episcopacy. For the last nine years the media has been full of True Stories of how the pew people have been deliberately deceived into thinking the RCC is such a wonderful institution. Turns out that it has a very dark side, and that the DarK SidE is the controlling factor. Seems for instance, that the only part of “Suffer the little children to come on to me ……” is the Suffer part, or haven’t you noticed? Of course people are confused, especially the ones who still believe the episcopacy serves Jesus. Do you believe Jesus would join the RCC? If so, Why? The RCC certainly doesn’t pass the test of the two great commandments, or the mantra “See these Christians, how they love one another!” The episcopacy has a large bunch of conditions that are not lovable, and the origin of those conditions can be traced to Creation, to God, with whom they are in conflict.. Whether you find objective facts respectful or not is your problem. Facts just are. And they have to be dealt with. That may not meet your Catholic standards, but it surely meets my Christian standards, which I believe trump the Catholic standards every time.

      • Victims4Justice.org Reply June 23, 2011 at 6:09 pm

        Sorry, Susan but I don’t agree with this statement. It’s not because I want to be contrary, but because when you create a forum for one particular group to submit their opinions concerning the nature of that group’s progress or problems, you invite those of us who have had significant problems with the Catholic Church.

        It would be similar to creating a forum along the lines of GodHatesFags. Now as a fag myself, I have an issue with this particular group and I find it a necessity, as well as my responsibility to contest GodHatesFags, that they do not have their facts correct, and unless you are a fag, you have no right to judge us based on how you feel. In recent months, we have seen, all too often, the result of GLBT teenagers being bullied and consequently ending their lives in suicide. Boys, as young as 11, who were bullied at school because of their “perceived” sexuality, have taken their own lives. I aim to stand between the bullies and the victims.

        When you create a topic that is controversial and has factually effected and ruined many lives, you open the door for people like me, to show the damaged side and profess why your beloved Church has become my enemy.

  8. Victims4Justice.org Reply June 23, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    13 Belgium victims of Catholic clergy abuse, who committed suicide in 2010, might not agree with this quote. I, a clergy abuse victim, do not agree with this quote. I wonder if Arthur Baselice III, who was abused by a Catholic priest and later committed suicide, would agree with those words? I doubt it.

    I was actually just coming around to the point where I could stop blaming Catholics who were unaware of the abuse taking place in the Church. Now after reading this, I am so certain that I’ve still got a lot of bitching to do. It’s obvious, through reading those words in that statement, or prayer, or whatever you want to call it, that Catholics still don’t get it. The Church is flawed, I suppose, as the author writes “But I cannot build another church without the same defects, for they are my own defects.” Sounds like the author is accepting some of the responsibility for the defects in the present Catholic Church, and would be prepared to go build another church, but it’s obvious the same type of behavior will follow. If these words aren’t an admission of guilt, I don’t know what is, but thanks for being candid. I wish the bishops could be as honest.

    • victims4justice,
      I hear you. However, can you understand why Catholics love their church?

      They (hierarchy, as well as people in the pews), have a lot to account for when it comes to their handling of the abuses of their own…but, I completely understand why they love their Church.

      • Survivor’s wife,
        I have put virtually a life time into figuring out the situation of why people [some in my family] “love their church”– actually about 35 years– and I have written about it on my own web site.

        Maybe the truth can only be seen after one has experienced [believing] the assurance of eternal life through the death , burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ as I and others have and then walked away from the Catholic Church, But I believe there are some who have believed as I do and remain today. But as to those who “love the Ctholic Church” I see them as victims, They have been lied to and that has consequences.Having problems here, have to stop.

      • If there is such a thing as a “third rail” in this discussion, it would have to be “why Catholics love their church.”

        I can’t think of any topic more probable to raise words that are very difficult to “manage”, that is, to keep from “hurting” feelings. that’s probably because it IS ABOUT FEELINGS!

        But, God’s dealings with mankind are NOT ABOUT FEELINGS!

        In the question, we will have to face the topic of Superstition— on top of all the other difficult topics, e.g., cultism, priestcraft, clericalism, etc. Sad but true!

    • Stay strong, RG. You are an inspiration.

  9. Victims4Justice.org Reply June 23, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    I contend that we are all atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

    • So, you are saying you can’t understand why Catholics love their faith since it doesn’t align with what you believe? Am I understanding that correctly?

      • Victims4Justice.org Reply June 23, 2011 at 6:56 pm

        I am making a statement of what I believe. I haven’t asked you to believe in anything. If fact, I said that you believe in one more god than I do.

      • I think the ‘catholics’ love their church, which from what I see and read really does not belong to the laity even though without donations it would perish, is because they ( pew catholic) believe it is necessary to ignore the filth and only focus on their salvation as long as the abuse does not affect their family, it does not matter how many children suffer as long as it is not there children !! Real christian behavior !!!!!

      • Victims4Justice.org Reply June 24, 2011 at 7:50 pm

        Significantly the problem is that Catholics believe that you can do anything you want, which includes abusing children and breaking any kind of societal or moral law, just as long as you head to confession every other week. Once an abusive priest or ax murderer confesses his sins, he is considered “absolved of those sins” in the Catholic Church. So the standard is not set with what WE believe to be morally and ethically just, but rather what the Catholic Church believes. If an abusive priest confesses his sins, he is thought to be no different than those of us who don’t abuse children… in the eyes of the Catholic Church.

        This is my main issue with why I can’t ever believe that Catholics can and will support the victims and fight against their Church to stop this madness. Catholics believe in their religion and their sacraments. “That reconciling of man to God is the purpose of Confession. When we sin, we deprive ourselves of God’s grace. And by doing so, we make it even easier to sin some more. The only way out of this downward cycle is to acknowledge our sins, to repent of them, and to ask God’s forgiveness. Then, in the Sacrament of Confession, grace can be restored to our souls, and we can once again resist sin.”

        So, in other words, you can molest and rape all the children you want, because once you confess your sins, you are no longer responsible in the eyes of God. And while abusive priests walk out of the confessional with absolution, my downward cycle of inner torment continues. When abusive priests continue to preach right and wrong, good and evil, I am restored to an early time in my life when being abused was “something God wanted,” or so said the priest who abused me.

      • Make no mistake Rich-I want them in jail!

      • I have interviewed several within my own family (and this abuse has affected them in some way)…I don’t agree with their reasons for staying, but I understand them. They vary…some are in denial of how this IS affecting them, they still want to believe they aren’t being lied to…a couple are older and they aren’t “gonna change things now…it’s all I’ve ever known.” A few stay “because of the Eucharist.” All are disgusted by the behavior of the abusive priests, of course. Honestly, I think a lot of it is they feel they would be betraying their ancestors, parents, and family…a large helping of guilt goes a long way. To them, “church” is the priest, the rituals…

        For everyone who can “separate” the institutional church from the tenets of their faith…there comes a time when they realize they too are being used and abused by their own…and how do you continue in a church that does that? And why?

        victims4justice, I wasn’t challenging you..I was asking for clarification.

      • Victims4Justice.org Reply June 24, 2011 at 8:48 pm

        I beg your pardon, but I don’t agree with anyone’s reasons for staying in the pews and I certainly don’t agree with them. How can you even justify filling the pews when the priest on the pulpit is complicit in the sexual abuse of children. And, make no mistake about it, he is complicit! If he isn’t speaking out against the abuse occurring in his own company by co-workers, then he’s in the same boat as the rest of them.

  10. George and Victims4Justice,
    I am distinguishing between the institutional Church and my Catholic faith. There is a grand canyon between the two. The institutional Church is more than flawed. It’s handling of sex abuse is abomination. My Catholic faith is not dependent on the institutional Church.

    I have no problem with your disagreeing with me. Otherwise, your comments would not be appearing. I do have a problem with labeling a group as “confused” and as in need of therapy because of their beliefs. That goes against the respectful nature of this site.

    • Victims4Justice.org Reply June 23, 2011 at 6:57 pm

      A lot of my comments don’t appear. 😉

      • You know the rule. They have to pertain directly to the post. Cracking down on that. If a comment is bumped for that reason, it can always be submitted as a guest blog post via the Contact page.

    • Susan,
      I would love to see you elaborate on this
      :”I am distinguishing between the institutional Church and my Catholic faith. There is a grand canyon between the two. The institutional Church is more than flawed. It’s handling of sex abuse is abomination. My Catholic faith is not dependent on the institutional Church.”

      If you are interested and have time, I will appeciate it.
      http://xcatholic.yuku.com

  11. Susan, When one is in therapy, it is because of what one believes, and it is because one is confused.
    Anyone who buys into the subject of this post is confused, and in a co-dependent manner. I have no objection to anyone thinking otherwise. I do object to you objecting to my objecting. While some may consider the subject sentiment as being spiritual, I consider it Roman Catholic Crap which is contradictory within itself. How could anything be more confused than to be a self contradiction?

    • Victims4Justice.org Reply June 23, 2011 at 7:46 pm

      Wow this is a really great reply. I laughed my butt off at “I do obect to you objecting to my objecting.” Oh hahaha!

      I do understand the need to be civil here and to be respectful of everyone. However, some just aren’t as angry and I am.

      • If it made you laugh, then it’s all good. That makes me happier than being right. I don’t often see you write that. Get the July issue of Philadelphia. The truth comes out…slowly but eventually.

    • I thoroughly agree that the outstanding element in the excerpt is undeniably contradiction.
      My notes:
      Salient feature- Conflict/oppostion

      Words used: 1.Obscurantism
      Compromised
      False

      2.Pure
      generous

      Beautiful

      It is clear here there is total conflict.

  12. What I like about Carretto’s reflection, shared by Fr. Chris, is that it depicts, well, the psychological and emotional tension, conflict, love, hate, had it, can’t live without it, tearing my hair out but mystified by the mystery kind of bad-mind-trip that can befall Catholics who, if they are mature, informed and rational, necessarily ask themselves “why stay” (considering the compelling circumstances)?

    Yet, mature, informed and rational people don’t hang with, live with, or marry bad-mind-trips. Rather, they get a grip. They use their efficient minds.

    What I don’t like about the reflection is the resolution.

    It is immoral to belong (or cling) to an institution that is immoral and corrupt. Regardless of the good that an institution represents (i.e. its faith), it is immoral to belong (or cling) to an institution that is immoral and corrupt.

    • Had it,
      The resolution is the struggle I’m in the midst of now. Can I practice my faith without the institution (Holy Eucharist, etc.)? The sex abuse overshadows all the good the Church accomplishes, but isn’t the Church worth the fight to change it? And even if we can’t change it, isn’t it worth educating all the people who stay? I haven’t had coffee yet. I’d better get some before I continue.

      • Catholicism has two components to it: faith and church.

        Its church is an organization that is immoral and corrupt. Therefore, to continue one’s association with it, is immoral. However, people who espouse to its tenets of faith have a moral responsibility to make every effort to reform the organization that represents the tenets of faith they espouse to.

        There are many, many Catholics who are practicing their faith and making every effort to reform the church, while not associating themselves with the church. Small groups of Catholics are meeting regularly, in the homes of each other, and celebrating the Eucharist… “Where two or more are, I am.” The “effect” of the Eucharist is the same in this environment as it is in the environment of the church, during Mass, and with a priest as the celebrant.

        Most Catholics are familiar with what is called “baptism by intention or desire.” Intention and desire can be applied to faith, as well. If the faith is “delivered” by an organization that is immoral and corrupt, causing the faithful to disassociate themselves from it, then the faithful can continue living the faith via intention and desire.

        Mature and confident Catholics will articulate for themselves what it means to live the faith according to intention and desire.

  13. Had it,
    Thank you. Through this site I have met others who are living their faith outside the institution. Perhaps living it even more fully than they did before. I think you answered Gerald’s questions about about the difference between practicing one’s faith and the institutional Church. What are your thoughts on Catholic schools? Also, where do these like-minded Catholics find each other in Philadelphia? I’m sure I have more than one reader who would be interested. Also, I think your points would make a great blog post. Do you mind if I use your comment as a post?

    • Susan,

      I support Catholic schools. But to think that the crisis in the church, today, is not affecting the challenges they face, or has not affected their demise in many instances, is shortsighted. Fewer Catholics in our churches translates into few children in our schools. There are a host of other crisis-related factors, church structure related factors, and unjust and ill-founded positions held by the church that, due to a trickle-down effect, are seriously and sadly disempowering our schools.

      Both of my now grown sons attended Catholic schools. Children are in the process of intellectual, moral, emotional, and spiritual formation, in my opinion. They are evolving beings. They are “becoming.” Their full and authentic realization depends on the collaborative efforts of parents, relatives, educators, clergy-members, mentors, coaches, neighbors, etc., … “it takes a village…” The “village” does not consist of cloned thought. It consists of a variety of thought. Parents affirm the inherent dignity of their children when they permit them to be exposed to a variety of thought, and when they teach them to critically think about it. To fear the effects of a variety of thought on our children is ignorant and counter productive to their well being, impeding their full and authentic realization.

      My goal with my sons was not to confine them to my values and beliefs, or insist that they acquire them. My goal was to take them by the hand, out into the “village,” where I believed that the diversity of thought, including my own, would ultimately enrich and inspire them to “become” who they were intended to be. Catholic schooling was one among the many threads woven into the tapestry called “my sons’ village.”

      You are welcome to my previous post, Susan.

  14. In response to survivor’s wife on June 23, 2011 at 6:22 pm:

    So, you are saying you can’t understand why Catholics love their faith since it doesn’t align with what you believe? Am I understanding that correctly?

    No, Susan, and you are putting words in her mouth, and you should know better. Is that the best moderation you can do? If it is, you shouldn’t be doing this.

  15. Victims4Justice.org Reply June 24, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    Back off, George. I disagree with a lot on this site, but Susan is creating discussion, and discussion along with “actions” create changes in the world.

    This is a good site, in that it makes people stop and think about things. You’re way out of line attacking the site founder.

    • Thank you. I have no idea what George is referring to, but I appreciate your support. I hope to add more than discussion. I want to contribute to action. Kathy and I have joined a secular advocacy coalition that will focus on child sex abuse laws, etc. I know we agree on that. Again, thank you.

      • survivor’s wife said on Quote Sums Up Why I’m Still Catholic
        June 23, 2011 at 6:22 pm

        In response to Victims4Justice.org on June 23, 2011 at 6:16 pm:

        I contend that we are all atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

        So, you are saying you can’t understand why Catholics love their faith since it doesn’t align with what you believe? Am I understanding that correctly?

        Susan in the original thread I read this as your comment:
        So, you are saying you can’t understand why Catholics love their faith since it doesn’t align with what you believe? Am I understanding that correctly?
        I read that as you asking the question. Apparently I was wrong. Please accept my apology for the confusion and for making a tempest out of nothing.
        george bouchey

  16. When Susan puts words not written into the mouth of another,Susan sows dissension, not discussion. Doing that is a cheap and sophist trick. I did not attack Susan, I merely pointed out what was obvious. She abused her position as moderator. Yes, this is a good site. Yes it has the capacity to make people think. No, I was not out of line. But your words are.

  17. George, I can only speak from my experiences. I share from what I’ve experienced, what former Catholics have shared with me, what survivors have shared, and what families who have been deeply affected by this evil have shared with me. I don’t pretend to be something I’m not. I’m not Susan, nor do I agree with everything on this site. I have the capacity, however, to realize there’s more than just my view of the world. I can respect why you think and feel the way you do and I wasn’t “challenging” you…I was asking for clarification.

    George said, “I beg your pardon, but I don’t agree with anyone’s reasons for staying in the pews and I certainly don’t agree with them. How can you even justify filling the pews when the priest on the pulpit is complicit in the sexual abuse of children. And, make no mistake about it, he is complicit! If he isn’t speaking out against the abuse occurring in his own company by co-workers, then he’s in the same boat as the rest of them.”

    I didn’t say I agreed with their reasons…I said I could understand why they stay…and why many seem to love their church.

    I know where I stand and why I stand where I do.

  18. I didn’t write this:

    George said, “I beg your pardon, but I don’t agree with anyone’s reasons for staying in the pews and I certainly don’t agree with them. How can you even justify filling the pews when the priest on the pulpit is complicit in the sexual abuse of children. And, make no mistake about it, he is complicit! If he isn’t speaking out against the abuse occurring in his own company by co-workers, then he’s in the same boat as the rest of them.”

    But I don’t disagree with the sentiment.
    george

  19. Susan, You have an important duty as moderator. You are in a position to lead and interpret. The latter must be done accurately. Your comment on what was written was not accurate – you changed the meaning of what was said by restating the comment. While that may provoke further discussion to suit your purpose, it is not a logical and ethical manner in which to do it. I strongly suggest you reexamine the specific action. A moderator may restate for clarification, but not for obfuscation.

  20. No, as I pointed out, putting words in someones mouth does not create discussion, it creates dissension, as your comment indicates. I suggest you also go back and examine how asking a question that does not accurately restate what was said is improper.

    Survivors wife wrote this:

    Survivor’s wife,
    I have put virtually a life time into figuring out the situation of why people [some in my family] “love their church”– actually about 35 years– and I have written about it on my own web site.

    Maybe the truth can only be seen after one has experienced [believing] the assurance of eternal life through the death , burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ as I and others have and then walked away from the Catholic Church, But I believe there are some who have believed as I do and remain today. But as to those who “love the Ctholic Church” I see them as victims, They have been lied to and that has consequences.Having problems here, have to stop.

    In reply, you asked the following question which is really a misstatement:

    So, you are saying you can’t understand why Catholics love their faith since it doesn’t align with what you believe? Am I understanding that correctly?

  21. George, You are incorrect. Reread the string. I did not reply with that question. That question was posed again by Survivor’s wife in response to V4J.

  22. George,
    I didn’t say this…

    Survivors wife wrote this:

    Survivor’s wife,
    I have put virtually a life time into figuring out the situation of why people [some in my family] “love their church”– actually about 35 years– and I have written about it on my own web site.

    Maybe the truth can only be seen after one has experienced [believing] the assurance of eternal life through the death , burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ as I and others have and then walked away from the Catholic Church, But I believe there are some who have believed as I do and remain today. But as to those who “love the Ctholic Church” I see them as victims, They have been lied to and that has consequences.Having problems here, have to stop.”

    I, not Susan, asked the following of V4J:
    “So, you are saying you can’t understand why Catholics love their faith since it doesn’t align with what you believe? Am I understanding that correctly?”

    And since I have the queston misstated as you point out…victims4justce would have answered with a “no,” since it wasn’t correct. Not putting words in anyone’s mouth…was asking for clarfication…which is why there were question marks at the ed of he sentences.

  23. The mistake was entirely mine.
    george bouchey

  24. Well thank goodness that is all cleared up. I couldn’t for the life of me follow what George was talking about.
    Thanks for your support Rich 🙂

  25. Victims4Justice.org Reply June 25, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    You know, I just want to say that I went out of my way to create my own website and my own organization because I was sick and tired of people bickering back and forth. Organizations who promised to continue fighting to protect children were too busy fighting amongst themselves to even notice the children. Other groups claiming to fight laws in State’s Legislatures are often too busy to know what they are fighting for, and the voices of victims have gone unheard for far too long. The changes that need to take place in the Catholic Church and outside of it is too important for boosting one particular group’s ego. If everyone would figure out a way to work together, speak together, and act accordingly we might just be able to change the world. I believe that. I believe that the few can develop into many and change institutions and society.

    Our Founding Fathers talked about changing America before the Declaration of Independence was drawn up, even though they knew that such talk was considered “treason” in the eyes of the King, but instead sacrificed their lives for what they believed in. Like those early Americans, I do consider myself an idealist, and it’s time we stop arguing over insignificant crap and start dedicating our lives to what we believe. It might just save another child from being abused! Think about it.

    “Give me liberty, or give me death!” – Patrick Henry

  26. What can be confusing here, I think, is that replies are not appended to the end of the thread [string] but are placed under the post being replied to. That way a reply may be missed by someone looking for the latest reply in the thread. I n my opinion.

  27. You would think that with the spirituality of The two Francis and both STs Clare and Jane the OFM and OSFS religious would understand the strength of good strong relationships with the opposite sex – without the physical component, yet with the “peace prayer” and the great books by DeSales, we seem to be left with broken souls left by some men who claim to be their followers.

  28. As Dr. Nick said early on in this thread, we, the people of Christ, are the church. The first thing we have to do is stop thinking of the hierarchy as the church. Just as our national government is not the United States of America, but its citizens (& probaby some others) are the USA, so it is w/ the church. A second thing we should attempt to understand before hardening our positions on the faith life of others is that the church has a long history, much of it laudable but w/ many, many instances of that which should never have happened, such as the time some call the “pornopapacy”, none of which, I hasten to say, compares, in my opinion, w/ the way our current leadership has facilitated, and sometimes participated in, the criminal sexual abuse of the most vulnerable in our midst, our children. It is through these lenses that I see Carlo Carretto’s prayer, in which I join.

  29. Ex-Catholic & Saved By Grace Reply July 17, 2011 at 3:49 am

    Comment made by: Victims4Justice.org
    I beg your pardon, but I don’t agree with anyone’s reasons for staying in the pews and I certainly don’t agree with them. How can you even justify filling the pews when the priest on the pulpit is complicit in the sexual abuse of children. And, make no mistake about it, he is complicit! If he isn’t speaking out against the abuse occurring in his own company by co-workers, then he’s in the same boat as the rest of them

    I certainly agree! I ran across this in Truth Provided and I think it interesting. See what you think…

    “60% of all contributions to the Catholic Church come from women, so come on gals, stop being “Nice Christian Girls” and step into “GODLY WOMEN” shoes. Boycott anything to do with the pope. Do not put a PENNY in the collection plate until pedophiles in high places turn themselves in to the police. Not only will your pocketbook thank you, but your soul will thank you too, for CONTRIBUTING to sin LINKS YOU to it. That’s right; by not saying anything and tithing to the Catholic church you are rewarding them this kind of behavior. If women would have done this at the very start of the investigation, just think how many children would not have been pawed at by men with perverse notions of what is God’s will.

    I don’t believe this is sexist…but that women are often more religious and give more willingly. I don’t really know though…

  30. Ex-Catholic & Saved By Grace Reply July 17, 2011 at 4:07 am

    sorry…forgot to hit notify…

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