Questions for the OCE and OCYP


Recently, many of you have asked questions on C4C regarding issues of child protection in the Philadelphia Archdiocese. Please share them again in the comment section of this post. Susan and I will use this post to compile a list of questions and will forward them to Mary Rochford, Superintendent of Schools and Leslie Davila, Director of the Office of Child and Youth protection.

Individual voices might not always be heard, but collectively with C4C national and local followers, we may be able to obtain some clarity on the very important issue of child protection. We ask that all comments on this post be questions concerning child protection within the Philadelphia Archdiocese. – Kathy Kane

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63 Responses to “Questions for the OCE and OCYP”

  1. What is the diocesan penalty for an employee (including priests and bishops) who fails to report a suspicion of child abuse to civil authorities?

    • WHEN do diocesan employees (including priests, bishops and all other diocesan staff) report suspicion of child abuse to civil authorities?

      Is the report made immediately, within 24 hours to civil authorities, (who can independently sort out the credibility of the suspicion) or is the ‘report’ possibly, eventually made to civil authorities after a tortuous ‘in house process’ that includes diocesan attorneys and Review Boards that lack data and power? And may well have discounted the issue as ‘unsubstantiated’…thus requiring NO reporting.

      • And let me carry the question a step further. Priests going through an ‘in house’ review process who deny allegations of abuse have been treated under canon law very gently. Their word has been taken and unless proof beyond doubt is available, hierarchy, like Rigali have accepted their denials as truth. This is how Rigali could make his statements ‘clearing’ those very soon to be ‘suspended’ 21, and then I think 24 priests that the Grand jury had found abuse allegations credible, evidence wise.

      • Joan, Philly News just announced that Avery just copped a “soft” plea. If Avery isn’t being required to give evidence against others as a condition of the plea, the people of Philadelphia have been “had” again. Hopefully, C4C will follow this up with appropriate coverage.

      • Jerry, do we know that part of the ‘soft plea’ included Avery not being required to give evidence against Spero, et al? When will we know it? Will the judge or prosecution comment, publicly?

        Judge Sarmina and the prosecution would have had to agree……

        I agree that justice requires his ‘evidence’ as I think C4C bloggers will totally want.

        He is a disgusting man and I worry about where he goes once his 2 to 5 years are served.

      • Joan, I don’t have the details, I have e-mailed Phil. Inq. and AP reporters to find out, but I don’t expect a reply.

        C4C bloggers should endeavor to express their views in the various media comment boxes as the details emerge.

        We will just have to wait and read the news reports, unless someone has an inside source. I do not.

      • Jerry, it always takes me a few minutes to ‘process’ stuff, but this Avery thing is really important. His behaviour with a 10 year old child is horrifying and well documented in the Grand Jury report for 2011. I have quoted some of it twice in the past two days. THat poor kid was handed around and essentially gang raped, by three rapists two priests and a school teacher.

        To lose his testimony is an appalling thought.

        Iam hopeful that Kathy and Susan and perhaps other C4C members can come up with an appropriate response, soon!
        Thank you. Joan

      • Jerry, a few more questions..Avery has pleaded guilty to rape of that poor ten year old kid, Two more trials are scheduled after this one for the other priest and teacher accused of rape of the same child. Lynn if the Grand jury reports are to be believed was complicit in the knowing assignment of these guys.

        I don’t think Avery’s plea is going to be helpful to Lynn, far from it… Could we see a rash of pleas in the next few days and if so what does Lynn perhaps reveal to avoid 28 years in prison?

        I don’t imagine things are too pleasant at the Chancery office, right now?

      • Joan, AP’s report this afternoon by Maryclair Dale already indicates that Avery mentioned in court today that Lynn knew Avery was sexually assaulting kids, but reassigned him to a new parish anyway!.

        Avery also indicated the Philly AD knew he was continuing with his “disc jockey” grooming gigs, but did not act to stop him.

        Avery’s fingering Lynn appears to be worth little. The DA already appears to more than enough on Lynn, even without Avery’s testimony.

        Will Avery now testify against Cullen, Cistone, Rigali et al. and tell us what he knows about what each of them knew and when the knew it, etc.

        If he doesn’t proffer this, why is he getting this soft deal? They have the victim’s direct testimony, which should be enough.

        I hope the PA legislators are watching how the Philly AD operated.

        Also, will anyone ask Rick Santorum, before next month’s PA primary, what he thinks and why didn’t he do something as a PA political leader when he could have.

        He commented in 2003 about the Boston scandal, blaming it on NE liberals. Rick was in office when the 2005 grand jury report was issued.

        While he was speaking Bevilacqua, then Rigali, were up to their eyeballs in priest predators, yet Rick said and did nothing, it appears.

      • — 7 kids of his own, and he says nothing….. typical wimpy, pew sittin’, Catholic dad.

      • Jerry…thanks for the assessment..’.will Avery now testify against Cullen, Sistone, Rigali et al ‘ is a very good question, another is, will Lynn testify against Cullen, Sistone, Rigali et al….

        I guess we need to ‘stay tuned’…always enjoy fussing with these issues, with you….though they are tragic beyond belief. Joan

      • You know, there are just three lines in the Grand Jury report for 2011 that address this issue with Father Avery,

        They are “Father Avery also informed Msgr. Lynn in 1992 that he had adopted six Hmong children – three girls and three boys. Archdiocese officials did nothing over the years to investigate the welfare or safety of these children entrusted to the accused child molester.”

        I worked for a church agency that resettled the Hmong. They were a very challenging and culturally undeveloped set of folks. If memory serves they were not into kitchen utensils or twentieth century standards of any sort.

        The notion that Avery ‘adopted’ 6 children and the AD did nothing to investigate the welfare or safety of these kids is horrifying.

        AND yet another indictment of the AD.

        If I were sentencing Avery, I would factor I these 6 kids big time, and 5 years in prison is nowhere long enough and the AD should pay on this one too!

      • Joan, the Wall Street Journal has reported that Avery’s attorney said his plea deal does NOT require Avery to testify against any one else. What a sad day for the Philadelphia criminal justice system.

        How could Williams and Sarmina do this? The defenseless children of Philadelphia are less safe tonight than they were last night. The power of the hierarchy continues to control events, it appears.

        Let’s lift the gag order, Judge Sarmina. This is not China. We are supposed to have an open judicial system. How about honoring our rights as citizens to know what is going on? Secret justice is no justice at all.

      • Do we know yet what the “give” was for Avery to plead guilty?

      • Jerry,

        Williams’ deep connections within the RCC seemed problematic from the get go. I was hoping for the best, but how could anyone be impartial when they have so many friends within the company?

  2. I have many questions which I will list,this is the first,

    1. In researching Dioceses throughout the U.S. I have found that many have implemented charters that include every single safety protocol that is in place to be followed regarding child protection whether it be for field trips,team sports,youth groups,activity clubs,classrooms,altar servers,any event which children participate. The information is comprehensive and available to parents to refer to ensure all protocol is followed. The charters are classified ‘diocesan law” with consequences should the policies in place not be followed. They also include a section titled “parents rights” Why do we not have anything like this in the Philadelphia Archdiocese?

  3. Why is the Catholic church not be prosecuted and investigated using the same RICO statutes that they use to infiltrate other organized crime syndicates like the mafia?

  4. 1) I need to know why I should send my child to a parochial school in this Archdiocese, where the helpless cries of countless abused children still echo in the halls?
    This, plus a lack of adequate funding and a doubtful future for many of them…Why a parochial school at this point, when there are other options?

    2) On child safety in Prep programs… I sent my child (out of parish) to a Prep program in 2010-11 in Southampton, PA. The experience was bad in every possible way –and particularly so in matters of child safety. It was a weekly free-for-all, with no regard for the child as an individual, and lacking for any accountability to the parents. As for a curriculum – that was another free-for-all… My child’s male teacher quit in March for unexplained reasons (no explanation was ever offered by the school.)
    The scene in the parking lot at dismissal was chaos, with a hundred or so, young children turned loose and walking between moving cars in the dark…no adult supervising anything! I was completely disgusted by the experience.
    Who is accountable for the safety of the children in these programs –or do the schools just let the liability insurance see to this responsibility?

    • 3.) Do you as administrators feel content in your leadership positions in the AD school system, considering that your bosses at the AD have enabled and covered up countless crimes against Catholic school children down through the decades?

      ( Personally, I wouldn’t want to risk my good name being printed on the same letterhead as theirs.)

      • 4.) Do you know whether your bosses, particularly Archbishop Chaput, know what an 8 year-old looks like?

        (The Archbishop of Dublin, IRE –the man calling the shots concerning the safety and well-being of thousands of children, admitted on 60 Minutes, to not really knowing what an 8 yr.-old looked like, until a teacher showed him a classroom full of them. American parents in 2012 find this unacceptable and feel it represents what is disordered about the AD and its schools.)

  5. There are approximately 60 priests mentioned in the 1994 memo as well as those on the “suspended list” from last Spring. Where are these men? Are they being supervised? Are they out in the community? Do they have regular contact with children? Have there been any recent complaints filed? Are they known to the State Police or the Child Line and Abuse Registry? I find it quite disconterting that there is a potential for more children to be harmed by known offenders.

  6. How are parents informed of areas that are lacking in the implementation of the Charter?

    Given the current situation in the Philly AD in regard to the handling of clergy abuse and financial transparency, can you state reasons why a parishioner can trust the management of money and the safety of their children?

    What are the limits of the Charter and how do you compensate for those limits?

    Why are the names of the Review Board for the Philly AD not made public?

    As Superintendent of Schools, can you ever override a decision of an errant bishop/cardinal in regard to child safety or any other personnel matter?

    How are parents informed once there is a credible allegation against a priest/teacher?

    • SW the question is not HOW are parents informed about credible allegations, it’s ARE parents informed about credible allegations?

      AND more significantly how are ‘credible allegations’ achieved…when the bishop can refuse to accept the Review boards judgement or his investigators or legal counsel judgement..and there is no Charter OR Essential Norms penalty for the bishop. Very clever of them to set up a system with no personal liability!

      • Joan,
        I’m not disagreeing with you. Let’s be realistic. There isn’t a Superintendent of Schools anywhere that will admit they don’t have a policy in place or they simply do not inform parents of important information.

        By the way my question is answered will determine whether there’s a process they follow. I’m not interested in yes/no answers. If there is anyone who should have the most informed position of what is going on in the schools, it should be the super. We’ll see.

      • SW, appreciate that this blog is addressed to specifics within the system, not the authenticity OF the system.

        Couldn’t resist that response though.

        I think if bishops really wanted to restore their credibility in these matters, they would adopt an immediate report to independent civil authorities stance. It’s the only way I can think of to resolve the QUESTIONS I was posing.

      • Also wanted to add…the Super may think they answer to the AD…and they do. But, ultimately, they answer to the parents of the children making decisions about where to place their children.

        Parents can pretty much accept (and work on) things that aren’t good…but, they can’t handle being lied to

        I hope the Super is forth coming with some answers ANY parent is asking. If their hands are tied by the bishops, I hope there’s an honest answer there too?

        If I were a parent in this AD, I couldn’t tolerate any more spin!

  7. Why did it take being sued (in many archdioceses, into bankruptcy) to protect our innocent children?

  8. If a parent has concerns that a staff member of a school has an addiction or mental health issue that is not being treated,what office at the Archdiocese does the parent contact? If a parent has similar concerns about a clergy member at a parish, again what office of the Archdiocese handles this concern? What is the process of filing a concern/complaint and what follow up is provided to the parent?

    If a boundary violation occurs at the parish level,who determines the reporting of such an issue? What avenues does a parent have to address a boundary issue that needs to be reported? Who determines if a boundary violation is not a ” mistake in following protocol” or is in fact an issue that could be a “grooming” technique? the parent? the school staff? the pastor?

  9. Will you release ALL documents regarding sexual abuse of children? Call me a skeptic…but I have a bad feeling this nonsense began before the 1960s.

  10. It is not nonsence, it is an evil way to get what they wanted sexually, from those who have no voice to call you on it. It was the original plan when the christian church was taken over by the evil doers that Paul warned the new christians about. He said “be care ful not to listen to those who are infiltrationg your little home groups. If they preach a gospel other than the Gospel that Jesus Christ taught you must not listen to them.” Well, they did and you got the Pope, the Vatican etc., all the rules and reg’.s but NO Jesus Christ , only a faux one.” Do as I say and don’t go to God for amnything” Confess your sins to us, we know better than you dumb sheep. Well, they did / but we know More than they do now and it’s curtains to the rcc.

    • I know it’s “evil” Gloria, I was trying to be a bit delicate calling it nonsense. It my previous posts…I use the term filth.

  11. Please for clarities sake take me through each step of the process and decision making that would be involved in a parishoner coming forward and reporting a boundary issue such as a priest texting a minor. Who does one report to? Who decides to move the report through the chain on command so to speak .Is there more accountabilty in the archdiosce than the past in your opinion? consequences? Where are the glitches and the hold ups in your opinion. What changes still need to be added in your opinion? Why are laity not involved in some kind of independent safety counsel to assess and improve the follow through in a parish? I know parishes are involved in an audit but don’t you think parents are even more invested in their child’s safety and have much they can contribute to the process?

  12. If there is a breach of policy regarding child protection by an AD school principal, I believe that there would ramications for that individual, perhaps even dismissal. What would be the ramifications, specifically please, for a pasteur or monsignor making the same breach?

  13. I did n’t mean to affend you John,It’s such a serious matter I just don’t want it taken lightly.

  14. There’s another list the Archdiocese wants to keep out of public view. It’s the list of religious order priests from Delaware sent to teach in Philadelphia-area schools. Saint Francis De Sales is known to many in the legal field to have exposed many abusers, as well as some of the worst abusers to children. It is also nearly impossible to identify religious order priests sent from other states to teach, because their histories of abuse will only appear in documentation from the state where they were ordained, if they even ever appear on a list at all. (Hopefully this will change when predator priests are exposed with the documention that has been released by the Diocese of Wilmington recently. I look forward to those pages being published on Bishop-Accountabilty.org)

    Just like a professional sports organization that develops and produces All-Star and Hall of Fame players, these religious orders have also produced some of the most notorious child sexual abusers. These people develop their skills over time, are experts in techniques of grooming children, and ultimately they abuse, and they do it over and over until they’re caught or until they die. Sometimes worse than the abuse itself, abusers are protected as if they were part of a “players union,” their secrets hidden, and their crimes almost never made public. To know that many Catholic and legal officals believe our stories and have been handed evidence to prove our cases, that they are legitimate and true, but can’t and won’t punish the perpetrator is sometimes worse than the actual physical and sexual abuse we endured. It’s a never-ending psychological struggle. But, even in professional sports, players are held responsible for many violations. In the Catholic Church, no one is held accountable, and no member of the hierarchy is even somewhat willing to take the responsibility for men and women, whom they developed and produced to become priests, but also prolific child abusers.

    It’s the only institution in the world that can admit guilt within, passing the buck to so many people who abused and so many others who covered it up, and yet escape the measure of justice and the standards the rest of us are held to. Religious order priests are considered the more prestigious and knowledgable of holy men, and they are also very suspicious and secretive, and they are very good at what they do.

    When I first came forward about my abuse and called the Archdiocese of Philadelphia, I was told that Rev. John M. McDevitt was a religious order priest with the Oblates of Saint Francis De Sales and they were not responsible. But wait one minute. The Oblates are in Delaware and I was abused in Philadelphia. How could this possibly make any sense at all? Of course the Oblates were responsible, in my opinion, as well as the Delaware Court’s opinion, but the Archdiocese of Philadelphia, Father Judge High School, and Northeast Catholic High School also need to be held responsible for accepting a “known child abuser” into their schools to teach around young boys, especially considering there were accusations of abuse of young boys by McDevitt stretching back as far as the 1970s. Even when John McDevitt was a Philadelphia City Councilman in the 60s, there’s some gossip that he was a little too “chatty” with the younger boys.

    Many of my fellow victims in Delaware were abused by religious order priests. Most specifically the Oblates of Saint Francis De Sales and the Capuchins Religious Order. Both of those orders were recently sued and both settled for substantial monetray amounts, as well as having to release every document of any priest, nun, or lay person who ever had an allegation of abuse against them, how those allegations were handled, and how, if at all, the offender was disciplined.

    My questions are simple. What will it take for the Catholic Church to expose the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? How many more children have to be physically assaulted, emotionally damaged, and psychologically crippled? I am broken enough, a delicate shell of a man, damaged from all the years of suffering and loneliness. Why do you continue to torment me?

    • V4J it makes me very very sad and angry when I read your beautifully written post.

      And your points about religious orders are so true!

      The Pacific Northwest Jesuits filed for bankruptcy in 2009, the Christian Brothers in the US in 2011, and in Canada a number of years earlier.

      In both instances their members had abused huge numbers of very vulnerable Indian kids in orphanages in the Northwest and in Canada. I cited the source several days ago and could dig it out if anyone wishes me to. These orders have apparently protected their well known educational institutions, from the bankruptcy issues, we have paid both orders to educate our kids, at the college level.

      I wish I knew how to hold these guys accountable, obviously someone figured it out relative to Jesuits and Christian Brothers, would surely welcome some bloggers insight on the issue.

      Thank you V4J, Kathy says you are a gem…and I think she’s right! Joan

    • V4J- your story is very awful – and it really helps me to understand this ugly thing better. Keep talking…and shining the light of day on this dark truth. More and more people are listening…especially this month!
      No matter how tired and broken you feel, you are respected and cared about very much here. {{hugs for you.}}

      • V4J,
        Exactly what Crystal said.

      • My cousin, was a Notre Dame, Holy Cross. brother in the 60’s, left the order because the priests and brothers were coming in to the dorm at night and sexually abusing the youngsters. Plus himself….It happened at Boysville in Michigan..I would not believe him, I thought
        it was sour grapes, because he left.

  15. Susan thanks for your mission to uncover the covered up secrets of the church.

    I have been reflecting on your recent email regarding issues of child protection in the Philly AD. There are many limited questions but my question focuses on the roots of this global evil behavior. We have evidence from the mid forties that hundreds or thousands of clergy have been involved in covering up priest predator crimes in America.
    Trust in the church’s word is damaged and weak so why should anyone trust the church to protect their school children? The Vatican is still not accepting responsibility for its role in creating the culture of cover-ups of the sexual abuse of children. The American Catholic church also follows the same behavior of admitting nothing they did was wrong as Bishop Egan said recently.

    I believe clergy are forced to follow the Pope’s direct or indirect orders and not their consciences. The church teaches that conscience is of supreme authority (in extreme cases –child abuse) to be followed even contrary to the Pope’s orders. So why didn’t the clergy follow their consciences is my question. This situation must be addressed before trust can be reestablished.

  16. V4J,
    I read one of Archbishop Chaput’s articles about the emotional pleas of the victims groups basically opening up the flood gates to lawsuits and money hungry lawyers and I can understand his point to a degree but then my question is………Is he running a church or a business? And in the end which is more important saving souls or saving money? Jesus never said save your money you need it for the poor………he said give away your belongings and come follow me……….When I read blogs by survivors especially you V4J and Vicky I always feel like donating more money to groups like Foundation to Abolish Child Sexual abuse etc. because I know how hard it is for survivors to come forward. My husbands offender(not a priest) almost got away with no criminal charges being filed til my husband some how mustered up the courage to come forward which was a very dificult thing to do but he did it to protect others……..I think about the time Jesus had his feet washed by the woman with expensive perfumed oil and the people admonished him and said the money could go for the poor and Jesus said you will always have the poor among you but I will not always be with you. I think the same way about the money vs soul saving …….you may save the churches money Chaput but dim or extinguish faith in Christ in a new victim by not protecting them and exposing them to soul murder..Sadly I know this can happen first hand it is only a few years ago my husband was baptized.I am here because everyone deserves to know the love of Christ and we need to help each other to get to heaven..V4J you might not agree with me but this is what I think about when you write basically you and other survivors motivate me to want to change things.and examine my faith.

  17. God be with all the victims. I am so terribly sorry for all the pain you have endured. I hope you find some comfort in knowing how many people are praying for you, and how many are listening to your stories. I hope this trial allows the Holy Spirit to work through truth and justice to take our church back from those who have completely corrupted Jesus’ message.

  18. I do have a question. It has been my experience in the years I taught in Catholic school, that the pastor and priests NEVER come to see the kids in our school. Is that because they do not have their security clearances? It is my impression that the priests who could pass a background check, both a civil one and one that proves that they are not in the secret archives, do not seek their clearances so as to not expose or embarrass their colleagues who cannot pass. That way no one comes to see the kids because they don’t have their paperwork. Does it bother you that many area Catholics have this same impression?

  19. I used to be glorybe1929 on this blog. When did it change?

  20. What can the average person do to protest the fact that Avery doesn’t have to testify? He has admitted his guilt. I don’t understand.

  21. http://www.philly.com/philly/education/20120326_Philadelphia_Archdiocese_superintendent_to_step_down.html

    Who will be answering these questions now?

    Let’s pay attention to who they promote, where they come from and how willing they are to be transparent and accountable of the policies and actions of the AD schools.

  22. Wow.. the superintendent stepping down is no insignificant development these days… I can’t imagine anyone wanting to step into her shoes right now…..with the Archbishop convening a pretend committee to do who-knows-what-next to the schools and parishes..and horrible stories of abuse in catholic schools in the media…and the looming threat of AD bankruptcy…

  23. Has anyone read the article about Rochfort (sp?) resigning?

    She left Sisters of St. Joseph Order to care for a disabled niece? Do I have that correct? It made it sound as if she didn’t really leave her vocation, which she did. Caring for a family member wouldn’t mean you leave an Order, would it?

    Isn’t a nun a nun for life…just like a priest?

    How sad that my first thoughts were, “what does she know?”

    I mean, she leaves her Order and is no longer a nun. Then Rigali hires her in the Office of Catholic Ed….and then promotes her to Superintendent of Catholic Schools in the AD…what am I missing here? Wouldn’t that be like hiring a former priest? Why would they do that? Unless…it seems fishy to me.

    • sw –Who knows what her history is with the SSJ’s –many of the open-minded ones were disgusted to the point of rebellion by the 90’s..
      To be in the position she’s in, she’s was prob. a very competent administrator and well connected in Rigali’s AD…
      Do you think she’s finally seen and heard enough– and wants off this crazy Chaput train?

  24. That’s the innocent version crystal…and I wish my brain would think in those directions first when it comes to the rcc. But, they have taught me otherwise.

    Maybe it was rebellion…but then, wouldn’t the rcc basically shun her for “defecting?” Instead they promote her to the lead position of Catholic Schools? There are a lot of great administrators…and they hire a former nun who left her vocation? I don’t get it. And it’s Rigali who allows her into the fold and promotes her? The same man who knew about numerous pedophile priests? What did she witness or know of that would make them want to keep her close? I don’t believe it’s strictly because of her administrative skills…and the timing of her resignation?

    “I don’t want to think such things of such a holy person,” and yet…I know the AD doesn’t do anything by happenstance.

    • …when we see who her replacement is, some questions may be cleared up -? Can’t imagine they’ll appoint a “maverick” to replace her at this particular time in AD history.

  25. I will just throw my 2 cents in on this one. There has been a lot of dissatisfaction with OCE over the years both by teachers and parents. The teachers strike in September and then the fiasco of the Blue Ribbon Commission using what appears to be faulty or outdated data provided by OCE has been the catalyst for alot of changes. The rumor is another top admin in that office is the next to go. By the way,it seems that many lay employess in the AD are former nuns,seminarians or priests. I really do think this change in the top of OCE is more related to admins not being proactive in the many enrollment and financial issues that are currently facing the schools.

    • Thank you for offering some perspective on this Kathy and crystal…makes more sense.

      Clarifies some of my concerns about “what did she know.”

  26. This OCE fiasco has been going on for many, many years, all over the Catholic world!!! Example: My sister in law, a Dominican nun (in Fla) was asked to take over a Catholic High School in Fla. after she had just retired from being principal of Tampa HS. She didit.

    The Arch- Bishop, Mc Carthy of Fla. ( he used to be in Az , where we lived ,as a Bishop) asked her so she could hardly turn it down.

    The reason; Examople: many, many not so good shennigans going on with two priests that were taking vacations,(with money they didn’t have) decorating their rectory in nothing but Ralph Loren and bad, bad things happening in the HS. After she got the HS squared away monetarily, etc.,etc., she was given the job of Superintendant of all the Dominican Schools throughout the “Whole World”. That didn’t last too long, as most of the schools had closed. At least,s that was what we were told.

    She was broken hearted over all the things she found out about the people running her church that she loved and died much too young at 72. The same as my cousin, the Holy Cross, Notre Dame Brother , (died in his late 40’s )that had to leave the HC order because he and the boys at Boysville in Michigan, WERE ALL BEING SEXUALLY ABUSED in their DORMITORIES at night by PRIESTS AND BROTHERS.We were told all this stuff by them both but NEVER BELIEVED THEM . I’m sure it was a factor in their early deaths.

    I say…Do not trust ANYBODY IN THE rcc. She never gave the whole story to us but my cousin, the brother, did.. After hearing all this, about the Sup. I know there was much ,much more then, just as there IS SO MUCH MORE NOW. .

    They seem to reward and demote, as easily as they sexually abuse OUR children and no qualms about any of it….after all they confess it.!! BS !! What a STICKI’N SHAM rc Christans have been delt ,all these years all over the rc world. NO MORE!!!

    Get rid of the b–t–ds.!!!!! This is no “church” this is the evil empriical palace where satan lives. IMHO!

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