Billy Graham’s grandson has declared “evangelicals” worse than Catholics on child sex abuse. See article here. Whether or not that’s true is irrelevant. What does matter is protecting children from predators in general and specifically those who hide behind God. The latter steal a victim’s spirituality along with their childhood. The term “soul murder” is very appropriate.
The Catholic Church, whether better or worse than others, has a responsibility to be a leader in the solution. Yet, I suspect the Catholic Church outspends other faiths in blocking legislation that would protect all children – regardless of faith.
Sadly, to date, our only hope has been law enforcement, the judicial system and parental awareness. If ever there was an issue that an Interfaith Council should address, this is it. This is an opportunity for Pope Francis to inspire and create global change, but he has to start at home.
73 thoughts on “Catholic Church in Bad Company When It Comes to Child Sex Abuse”
The problem is that neither the Pope nor the Archbishop have assumed responsibility for what has happened. It is not enough to say that it won’t happen again. Jesus said one must make peace with your brother before you bring your gift to the altar. There is no formal announced program as to what the church is willing to do for those injured in its’ name. Until that happens they will continue to bleed financial support and congregants. October is parish census month when they report average mass attendance. That figure is critical to impressing upon the leadership of the Archdiocese the extent of dissatisfaction with their moral failings since that number more closely reflects the number of Catholics than the parish roll. I am still counted on a parish roll even though I joined another faith community more than a year ago and will not go back until they recognize their responsibility to those injured in their name.
It may be worth attending another faith service this month to show the leadership how the laity feels. It also may be educational to see that others see the same God that the archbishop sees and that their god may be more like Francis’s God than Chaput’s God
Amen. The Catholic church is trying to each the world that God thinks it’s ok to get away with organized crime as long as you cut down on it after you get caught.
Cuz God’s an idiot.
P.S. Francis isn’t as bad as the last pope, but he’s still a heartless, professional pedophile protector.
According to the Washington Post of March, 2013, Fr Julio Grassi was convicted and sentenced to 15 years in prison in 2009. It seems that Grassi never went to jail due to interventions by Archbishop Bergoglio who is now Pope Francis. And it was reported that the Archbishop refused to meet with the victims. Or show me proof that he did, which you can’t.
Shame if I offended Catholics who proudly credit the new pope for saying things that any normal human being would say.
P.P.S. for the Catholics that stand against homosexuality (with their 400,000 priests that have never had sex with a woman), Jesus never, ever said anything against homosexuality.
The thing that gets me the most upset is when fellow Catholics say that it happens in other religions as a way to make themselves feel better. It is true ..100% true.. that sex abuse happens everywhere..in every religion, culture and corner of the world. We met a Hasidic Jewish Rabbi at one of our press conferences who traveled from New York to Harrisburg to support protection of children and victims. He has gone to great lengths in his community to protect children and uncover abuse and cover ups. So instead of pointing to other religions and showing what they also do wrong, maybe people could actually care and get involved..I simply cannot imagine pointing out that it happens other places as a way to make myself feel better about what has happened in my own religion..they are children… not numbers or statistics…they are children.
Last year right before the trial there was an email circulating with statistics of children being abused in other religions….it literally made me sick as people looked to this email to make themselves feel better and excuse what has happened in this Archdiocese. The day that I use statistics of children being abused in other religions or public schools to make myself feel better about what has happened within our Church would be the saddest day of my life…every single one of those numbers and statistics is a child whether they are Lutheran,Catholic, Jewish etc..there is simply nothing that infuriates more than people using examples of abused children in other religions as a way to make themselves feel better about the abuse in the Catholic Church.
I know you know this…but, I’m saying it again…
Whenever a victim or survivor hears the finger-pointing or the media blame game…it’s another slap of betrayal. Whenever I read the articles about the Catholic church being targeted, I wonder what cocoon they’ve been living in that affords them the luxury of being more concerned about the media than the abuse of children?
Denial is powerful and takes on many forms.
– in the Catholic church, it was organized crime. Don’t understate that. the top leaders of the Catholic church made the clear decision to protect the child rapists and lie about the crime of raping children using the power of their god instead of helping the victims
– the numbers were MUCH worse it the Catholic church. No other institution in the history of the US admitted 4,392 substantiated, accused child sex offenders like the Catholic church did in their own John Jay report of 2004. All of the distractions that the Catholic church points to are “estimates”, i.e. numbers someone made up. No other institution is even close. The awesome part is that you find out the real numbers on your judgement day, and get to explain why you didn’t seek the truth from the child rapists that hid the truth.
– those other excuses that Catholics use essentially boil down to “look over there, one of them got caught” at a school or in the boy scouts, et cetera. Yeah, and they aren’t God’s church either, but they didn’t commit organized child rape using the power of their god.
I agree Kathy, just because sex abuse happens in other denominations and organizations certainly does not let the church off the hook. First of all these priests groom the boys and have control of them because after all, isn’t every child in the RC faith taught from an early age that the priest represents Jesus. Only a priest has the power to forgive sins in confession, only a priest can say mass, so they rape these children IN THE NAME OF JESUS. How disgusting and deplorable an a man be. The priesthood is such a handy hideout for pedophiles. Don’t ask, don’t tell. The other statement I hear from Catholics is that they should be able to marry. WHAT!!!! And the people who say this really think that is the solution to the sex abuse problem in the RC church. Wow, this type of thinking amazes me and also keeps me out of the church that I once loved and defended. But for right now I just cannot defend a Church that looks the other way as it’s priests murder the souls of it’s children.
Well said, Kathy! I feel the same way. Hope Bill Donahue, Cardinal Law, and Cardinal Dolan read what you wrote, as they all said (and still say) the same thing. Such hypocrites!
When you “own” your shortcomings…you take responsibility without pointing fingers.
I did this…I failed to do that…
and for all catholics, they must be willing to say, “our victims.” Whether they perpetrated, enabled, or ignored…
survivors wife..yes “owning and taking responsibility” is always what we were taught in Catholic school. No apology was allowed to contain a “but” and nothing riled up the good Sisters more than when someone would point out what others did wrong . The “he did it too” excuse, simply did not fly
I have been an advocate for clergy sex abuse victims for almost 24 years. I do it because I was raised catholic and bought into their teachings. Until the pop’s, cardinals, bishops, priests nuns and laity actually embrace the teachings of Christ and the Catholic church, little change can be expected to take place when it comes to cleaning up the sex abuse.
Mike I agree 100 percent.
The Catholic church is different because in the Catholic church it was organized crime, implemented the same way worldwide, and in specific defiance of what Jesus said.
Every priest who raped a child immediately went to confession, and you can see that clearly in the Philly Grand Jury Report. The priest that absolved the child rapist is also in complete defiance of what Jesus said.
Confession is purely a Catholic invention. It wasn’t invented by Christ. When Jesus was speaking in John 20:23, He was probably speaking to all VICTIMS of all sins, giving them the power to forgive sins. Catholics took the power themselves, giving it only to Catholic priests. Of course, they never taught us that growing up.
Even if you believe the concept of Catholic confession, Jesus made it very clear int he second part of John 20:23 that some sins weren’t forgiven. Jesus then say, in 3 separate places in the bible, that anyone who causes a child to stumble would be better off putting a millstone around their neck and being thrown into the ocean. See Mark 9:42, Luke 17:2, and Matthew 18:6.
Pretty harsh comments from Jesus that the Catholic church says forgives everyone for everything (as long as you’re Catholic and go to confession).
Child rape in the Catholic church isn’t a solo crime like it is elsewhere. Other institutions didn’t confess every child rape to another priest, who then forgave them (on behalf of Jesus, despite what Jesus said). Bishops and other priest hid and moved them, despite what Jesus said.
In Philly, the ones that knew about it – Cardinal Bevilacqua, Bishop Cullen, Bishop Cistone, Msgr Lynn, Molloy, etc are treated like idols by Catholics for acting in direct opposition to what Jesus said. Catholics paid over $10 million in court to try to save Lynn, and are now trying to get him out of jail.
Catholics, of course, have never, ever made an effort to do the one thing Jesus would have done – find every single victim, and get them help.
Other churches may have bad individuals, but they didn’t commit organized crime like the Catholic church did.
God proved to you that the Catholic church isn’t God’s church.
hmmm…Patrick you obviously have not been to Philly, let alone live here. Bevilaqua an idol to Catholics…uh no…Cistone and Cullen..stop anyone on the street and they would not even know who these two men are..Lynn..a mixed bag ..some think he is a scapegoat..others feel different. Some of my money may have been used for Lynn’s defense..it is possible because in the 46 years I have been alive ,I have donated having no idea that the future use of that money could be used for criminal defense. If you visit Philly you would find half empty church pews…a financially struggling archdiocese…schools and nursing homes being closed…not a bunch of people idolizing the people you mentioned..pay a visit some time before you make your sweeping generalizations.
You are obviously wrong. I’ve been to Philly, this summer, and seen the big filthy rich churches, which almost made me puke. I had no idea how filthy rich they were.
Since I am not there full time, I hear what your Philly Catholics say online, and I hear what they don’t say. They don’t say to take Bevilacqua’s corpse out of the Basilica, tie a millstone around it’s neck and throw it in the ocean, like Jesus said to do in 3 places in the new testament, as I said above.
Who cares – Catholics ignore what Jesus said if their pedophile protecting priests tell them otherwise.
Look at any article in the Philly magazines – at least half of the responses are in favor of the Catholic pedophile protection program.
Catholics don’t fight for the victims, and don’t try to keep Lynn in jail. They fight to get Lynn out of jail, even though he hid 35 known pedophile priests and destroyed evidence about them in 1994 (with the help of Cardinal Bevilacqua & his henchmen). There’s no Catholic uprising to keep Lynn in jail or to imprison his pedophile priest pals.
I live in Boston, which has 90% empty pews in the biggest church in downtown Boston at the 11 AM Sunday mass, and that’s no exaggeration. I’ve been there.
I watch the online buzz, I hear what Chaput says as he fights to help his pedophile brothers get away with their crimes. I’m not insulting you in particular, but Catholics are the weakest, least committed fighters in in history. If I’m wrong, show me ONE percent that are fighting for this cause. The one percent of the 1.3 million Catholics is 13,000. Better yet, show me one in a thousand, which would be 1,300. Stop defending them.
By the way, I have a lot of admiration for you and the 130 that are on God’s side in this fight, which is one in 10,000, but don’t tell me how the others are fighting.
My sweeping generalizations about the 99.99% are 100% right.
Patrick you actually don’t have a clue. The filthy rich churches you mention were built years ago with the blood sweat and money of some of my ancestors..people who had no clue as to what the future held..now those Churches are half empty and I believe the projection is that the Archdiocese will be reduced by 40% in the next decade with schools and churches closing. I guess you weren’t here in Philly a few weeks ago to see 90 year olds being wheeled into the cathedral to protest the closing of the Catholic Health Care System which runs the nursing homes that will now be sold.
The Catholic School system which is limping along actually draws many non Catholic students because the Philly public school system is failing. You can get the hard numbers of the number of non Catholic students…one parish school has 80% non Catholic students and one child attended wearing muslim attire. Shocking..of course. You want to portray everyone as mindless rosary carrying white haired robots and it just isn’t the case.The Catholic school system in Philly is basically going to become a charter school system .
Last year you claimed the jury would be made up of the white haired rosary carrying Catholics and having just come from the courtroom that day I fell off my chair laughing at your comment. You could not get a more opposite jury than what you described.
You think i am defending people and you could not be more wrong. Susan and I hear from people every day who have left because they cannot take the corruption,the abuse,the arrogance. We hear from people who stay but no longer donate,they won’t leave the sacraments but they no longer open their wallets. Then of course is the percentage of people who you fight with online in various blogs and newspapers article…the people who will always say the victims are liars and defend any priest. Many people who use the internet are extremists no matter what the cause religion,politics etc…you are fighting with those extremists and making generalizations about groups of people.. Patrick I have been in this Archdiocese for 46 years..sorry my friend I will challenge you on every point where you declare your opinion as fact.
And I mean no disrespect to any white haired rosary carrying catholic as I have been at protests in Philly and press conferences in Harrisburg with the most awesome group of white haired Catholics 😉 Patrick you travel all over the country and have never made it to any protest, event,the trial..nothing. Boston is a short train ride..anyone can be a hero at the keyboard of a computer. I know someone else already called you out on this last year…you come here and try to rile people up..constantly tell victims that no one cares about them..that is just awesome.
You couldn’t possibly know if I made it to any protest, event, the trial..nothing, yet you are very confident in stating it as fact. That’s actually a very Catholic trait.
Last year, on a business trip, I drove to Baltimore just so I could see Vicky C on the way home. I went to the Lynn trial, talked to Ralph Cipriano. I have done seminars specifically for survivors, and strategized with them on how to combat the Catholics.
Where did I “constantly tell victims that no one cares about them”? Please show where I did that.
I did say that 99.99% of Catholics don’t care enough to do anything about it, which they knew already, and which sickens me. It’s such a hypocritical church, from pope to priest to parishioner, which is easy when you aren’t God’s church.
Patrick I am glad to hear that because last year someone asked you specifically why you never came here when you had so much to say about things..at that point you had never been here.
From your comments when you replied to Beth that you are glad it is falling apart..I can’t be happy for old people who did nothing wrong or kids who lose their schools..that is pretty cold hearted on your part.
As for the victim part, you may appeal to some people but I can tell you not to all. Last year you condemned victims as brainwashed if they attend Mass..who are you to say such a thing? Where do you get the authority that you give yourself to determine what is right or wrong for people?
Why do you post using 2 different names…pretending you are 2 different people. Trust is important especially to victims…why do you do that?
You want to lock people in dungeons . Your ideas are something I have never encountered with all of the people who are working on the laws in various states..laws that will actually protect many children. you want the church to disappear..it is not going to happen..go from that point and you might have an easier time.
Here is a line from one of your comments “Catholics, of course, have never, ever made an effort to do the one thing Jesus would have done – find every single victim, and get them help.” Really Patrick? I have met people who have been at this much longer than you and i in trying to help people. Spending much time and energy for the victims and protection of children. As for finding every victim..have you found every victim in Boston? Do you actually realize that some victim’s worst nightmare would be being found?
You have tunnel vision on what you expect from victims, what you think they would want, what you think they would respond too and if it doesn’t fit your mold then tough because it is your way or the highway. You have made some of the most inflammatory and upsetting comments on this site and it is not always the Catholics who you target, that bear the brunt of your opinions.
Patrick O…about Philly….Don’t be fooled by a pretty old church you visited in town, or some moronic comments in magazines…. There’s a real nasty fight going on here … and those of us on the side of the victims of the RCC have no intention of losing it.
(Speaking of Boston….Where is Boston’s Cardinal Law these days? Did you all manage to put him in jail yet? …Are ANY of Boston’s AD officials in jail? Wasn’t Boston the ground zero of the US clergy abuse scandal? )
Crystal I posted on my own social media account about Brennan being arrested because he was a chaplain at my high school. The comments from former classmates reminded me of “Crystal comments” and a few private messages wanting more info about this fiasco.
Patrick will probably respond that it is ‘different” in Philly because we have had 2 Grand jury reports..,at least that is what he said in the past. It’s all smoke and mirrors and throwing stones because Grand Jury reports or not ,it is the same everywhere and I think that when he accomplishes all that he expects of others, he needs to give us all the blueprints for success.
Kathy: I agree with you. The Catholic Church in philly is disintegrating right before our eyes. Every priest who is arrested and every monsignor who spends time in jail bring the Church much closer to its rightful demise. But the name of this site is “Catholics for Change”. I don’t know that the Catholic Church will ever change, but if it does, it will be because of people who stay and fight, not because of people who throw stones from afar. The one thing that I can agree with Patrick on, is that until the Church makes a concerted effort to contact every living person who has suffered at the hands of a Catholic Priests, this crisis will never end. Every victim of sexual abuse needs to be given the opportunity to heal from that abuse. Putting up billboards on the Surekill Expressway or urging victims to contact the Church in radio ads will never work.The Church needs to do the extremely difficult task of personally contacting every person who has come into contact with known or suspected abusers. That would mean opening up all ,of the secret archives.I firmly believe that there are many victims out there who will never heal because they are so entrenched in lives filled with depression, thoughts of suicide, and addictions that healing will come only when they can confront the demons from their childhoods
How do you think this can be done compassionately? I think it is a good idea. I guess the church can send a team of trained people maybe even people that are survivors themselves and have heard in some cases they do this but I have heard that some people are not ready to deal with their abuse and when they are ready they will ask for help. I guess every survivor is different. I just feel the caring thing is to at least try to reach out . I also have heard where people reach out but also ask them to come back to the church. I think the motivation to reach out should always be to see how we can help not try to recruit people back to the church. I also think the compassionate thing is to let survivors seek justice as many times that can help in healing and also it can empower them because by doing so they can protect other children.
Jim I don’t know..I have met so many people in various stages in their journey and some want nothing to do with coming forward or being found. From my background work in counseling I know one thing and that is that what works for one does not work for another. Everyone deals differently. I think providing names of abusers of course is important and identifying those who have been removed etc…but other then that people need to come forward in their own time, in their own way. I also have had the gift of working along side many who have been in this field a very long time and the advice has always been the same..no push..no outing of a victim..on their terms is so important because of the sense of control they will have in a situation.
I think of one of our elected officials who has been on the front lines for about the past decade in this fight for better laws. It was just in the past 2 years that she identified herself as a victim of sexual abuse at the hands of a family member..she never let on before that she was also a victim..she never told the people working on this issue..she never mentioned it in any speeches she had given concerning victims and children. She came forward when she was able, on her terms, on her timetable.
I know that in the case of Fr James Brennan a few thousand letters were sent out to former students who may have crossed his path..I don’t advocate investigators showing up on people’s doorsteps to find out if they were a victim. I cannot imagine the ramifications of that.
I agree absolutely that people staying does make a difference…look at some of the very legitimate concerns that the new commenter ‘worried parishioner” has raised. That is what is needed.
Morale is low. Chaputs seling everything he can get his hands on. Its difficult to be in denial when all the parishes and schools are merging and closing and you watch the news about all the the horrors and suffering of our survivors and see stories of abusive priests being arrested etc.. Nursing homes and homes for the mentally challenged are being sold or closed and downsized. There is no money for pensions of the present priests. People are leaving in droves. Chaput said a few months ago basically he did not like being here. The AD is reaping what it sowed….we see the rotten fruit of the corruption and abuse that went on for years……..I care about our survivors……..I reach out best I can and I also am fighting to change the laws in Pa…….Because I believe the victims and I also agree with you what happened to them was of Satan………..the Father of all lies and distorter of the Truth…………..
I care about survivors, and I’m happy to hear that it’s falling apart, as it should. God has made it clear that the Catholic church isn’t God’s church, so it should die a painful public death that teenagers get to watch and read about (while their parents ignore it or deny the truth). That will assure that teenagers leave the church permanently, and their future families never return.
I would love to believe that there is no money for the present priests that hid or tolerated the crimes, but I promise you that they will be taken care of by the Catholic church, which is a shame. A bunch of them should be in jail, and others should be thrown on the streets.
Patrick although it is sad and disorienting for catholics that dedicated their whole lives to the catholic church……I am glad that the Truth is being exposed and the corruption and abuse is being brought to the light. The church was entrusted to saving souls not destroying them. When the corrupt church leaders are brought to their knees I hope they repent and understand that the only one they can trust is Jesus Christ and that it is only by doing his will not theirs that they will get to heaven. Too much pride too much self worship which was the sin of Satan……..I believe the Catholic church is the one True church that is why Satan is attacking it from within and without. Satan doesn’t want the Truth of her teachings to be believed. Satan has distorted everything that is good and pure in the Catholic church. The church will be in a ruin and I believe many good catholics will be red or white martyers but we have Jesus promise that Satan will not win. Therefore I put my hope and trust in Jesus Christ and try to do his will even in the chaos and even in my own sinfulness.
Kathy and Beth: Sorry it took so long to respond to your posts. I was down the shore last weekend with my Grandkids. Being with them is about the only thing that gets me away from the abuse mess. My granddaughter is six and my grandson is four. They are just perfect. Plus work is getting worse. No matter how much I do, they keep throwing more and more at me. Anyway your questions about my assertion that the Church needs to personally contact every living victim. Obviously you are both correct when it comes to the fact that many if not most victims simply want to forget what happened to them and move on with their lives. Any kind of intrusion into their lives would do more harm than good. What I am suggesting would be a far cry from what the Church has done in the past. The first step would be an audit of the Archdiocese, much like Tom Doyle and his associates did with the Capuchin Friars in the Midwest. All the records of priests within the order were opened up to the investigators. All of the secret archives were opened. No court order needed. It was done voluntarily. Can you imagine all the information on childhood sexual abuse that could be garnered if we got to see all of the hidden documents, the Church has kept hidden. We really have no idea how many kids have been abused over the years. The Church for obvious reasons has tried to minimize the numbers, knowing full well that the numbers are much higher. Those of us who were abused think the numbers are much higher, knowing that a pedophile does not abuse just once.I would suggest a questionnaire sent to those who were most at risk, altar boys, kids who worked in the various rectories, kids who may have been coached by one of those accused. Anonymous responses would be accepted. People could put their names on the questionnaires if they wanted. Obviously this would require a completely different Church than we have seen in the past. But how do you deal with a problem when you have no idea how big of a problem exists. Any response would be in response to the number of people affected. Victims have been reluctant to come forward in many ways because of how the church has responded to other victims. What I am suggesting is a novel way of dealing with victims.A compassionate, caring, empathetic approach.
Jim that is a very interesting idea. I think if you targeted especially altar boys you would get a huge response sadly. I come from St. Andrews in Drexel Hill and Fr. Cannon was in charge of the altar boys there just horrible.The church sadly has decided keeping their money is more important then helping survivors. The ironic thing is if they actually had and would currently do the right thing some people who have left the church might return. So they shoot themselves in the foot in reality. Besides what would Jesus do? I really am disgusted with how the church responded to the sexual abuse of children. Its all big business no heart. Like someone pointed out if they practiced what they preached their churches and schools would not be closing. The catholic church documented sexual abuse like no other church and is much bigger and more organized than any other church. Its not that they would not be able to defend themselves its that their documents cry out they knew and did nothing. God Bless our survivors and I pray the laws change everywhere to protect all children everywhere.
Jim I understand what you mean..voluntary,not invasive approach. Of course for criminal or civil a person must come forward but for those who do not want to go any legal route , they could be included anonymously on surveys etc..
I am here to tell you that we are the lucky diocese that gained the culprit Bishop Joseph Cistone, which is the Saginaw Diocese of Michigan. As soon as he got here, he implemented a two-year “Planning Tomorrow’s Parishes” agenda, which now has resulted in reducing our number of parishes from 109 down to 56 over the next couple of years. Most if not all of the parishes were solvent, did not want to be closed, and had cash in the bank (some had loads of cash upwards of 250K and up). And believe me, the people here are either ignorant of his involvement in the sex abuse coverups, or totally enraged. But we can’t get the concrete links that he’s liquidating our parishes to pay for his civil ligitation fees. So many of us here would love to get rid of him, but how???
Don’t whether or not he has been deposed in the civil matters pending against the Archdiocese of Philadelphia, but Cistone will certainly show up with a bevy of Saginaw/Philadelphia parishioner-funded attorneys when that legal proceeding happens. Doesn’t matter how much spin, deceit, hypocrisy or double-speak he puts forth…….innocent archdiocesan children were being abused during his tenure and he chose the clergy’s interests over that protection and innocence of the children.
Legal fees? Find out if there is outside counsel and keep asking them the questions. Ask them when they attend Mass in their parishes, if the attorneys happen to be Saginaw parishioners. The time of the “sign of peace” would be the best time during the Liturgy to query the archdiocesan attorney.
Lets start addressing this as ;CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE CRIMES- CALLING THEM WHAT THEY ARE CRIMES AND NOT WHITE WASHING ANYTHING. PLEASE CONSIDER THIS IN YOUR FUTURE ARTICLES-EMPAHSIZE “CRIMES” AGAINST CHILDREN. LETS HIT THEM HARD SO IT WILL CARRY MORE AND MORE WEIGHT ..AND NOT DESTROY THEIR LIVES AS IT HAS SO MANY OF OURS.
Thank you Patrick for showing how the Jesuits and other catholic priest operate. (in DEFIANCE of Christ’s teaching.. They do just the opposite.. Jesus said “many will come in my name claiming to be me but they are not” and “beware of wolves in sheeps clothing”..Rathar than wait for the catholic church to change, I changed and found a relationship with Christ outside the catholic church.. am happy and peaceful being free of that horrible evil cult.. and yes I have major priest sex abuse in my life and with my loved ones.. I have fought hard for over 30 years to expose it.. am thankful to see them crumble..
So sorry to hear it. So many others on this site have been tormented by the Catholic program also, and it has to be inconceivable to you that people could defend Catholic practices in the name of their god.
Of course, Christ never said His church was a set of filthy rich buildings, a set of sacraments (all invented by Catholics) and a hierarchy of priests (which Christ never, ever said anything about), or anything else that the Catholic church invented.
In fairness, though, they made a TON of money, and bought the best real estate in every city, with huge stained glass windows, gold chalices, and lifetime retirements for every priest, including the child rapists and those that protected them.
It’s so funny to me that no priest ever had a job. Like, as a carpenter, which is What Jesus Would Do.
The Catholic church decided to keep the money instead of giving it to the 2,000 people that die of starvation every day. Think God will ask you about that when you die? Catholics, don’t answer, I know you have your excuses planned.
P.S. God will mention that Catholics could have cured hunger for 10 cents per Catholic per day.
Somethhing to veery seeriously ponder……..
“IF” the church has tauaght us that at our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirist and also that the only sins tat cannot be forgiven
are sins a gainst the Holy Spirit, then, is it reasonable to say that innocent children’s bodies that have been defiled are crimes against the Holy Spirit???
against the Holy Spirit and cannot be forgiven. Give this some thought,unless some Jes;uit logic can deny it somehow.
Hi Patchy –
Here’s some ‘food for thought’ (if you’re hungry):
Catholics commonly list of six categories of sin against the Holy Spirit, viz:
1) Despair – believing that one’s own sin is greater than the possibility of Divine forgiveness,
2) Presumption – claiming glory without merits, or assuming pardon without repentance,
3) Resistance to the known truth,
4) Envy of another’s spiritual good,
5) Impenitence – deliberately not repenting of a sin, and
6) Obstinacy – obdurately and repeatedly clinging to sin.
However, the Church further believes that there is no offence – however serious – which cannot be taken away by Baptism, or absolved from in the Confessional….and that…..
……there is no one – however objectively wicked and guilty he or she may be – who may not confidently hope for forgiveness
Joe, forget the propaganda they taught you at St Charles Seminary, and get this:
There is no forgiveness for men who facilitate the rape and torture of children. Not here, not in heaven.
Crystal the one offender I came in contact with was a born again Bible Christian. He thought he could commit any crime against a child and still go to heaven because he was born again and believed in Jesus Christ. My answer was even Satan believes in Jesus………look where he went…..Jesus said if you love me you will follow my commandments..I believe all sins can be forgiven because that is what Jesus taught but you need to repent and stop sinning breaking the commandments many of which are crimes because we know as society they destroy people emotionally, spiritually and physically. People can distort what Jesus taught to suit their own sinfulness. The way some priests went to confession repeatedly for the same crimes against children is not what Jesus intended. Paul even one place in the Bible told the people to throw a repeated sinner out of the church. There needs to be common sense and discernment when dealing with evil.
Patchy, I have mediated on many occasions on the body as the Temple of the Holy Spirit in relation to sexual abuse and many of the other verses you point out about millstones.Much of the answers of life can be found in the Bible and when we are judged on judgement day we will not be able to say we didn’t know or at least didn’t know where to look it up especially the clergy……….that have spent years studying the Bible.
BRAVO, Tina! So proud of you!
Tina, I had to leave the Church also. Could not wait for it to change because this cult will go on until everyone walks out the door. You know I sort of equate it with smoking, once you quit and you see it and smell it, the more disgusting it becomes to you. When I was in the Church and wore the blinders and defended it, I really didn’t get a good look at what I was doing. But now that I am out, I look at the Church and think OMG, what kept me there so long. Instead of making me a better person, actually it was killing my soul. So glad to be free of the make-believe “one true church”
Okay, let’s stop judging. That is up to God. I think judging is a very catholic trait. Let’s do what we can to stop the filth. Keep spreading the word about child abuse . “Father” is not God on earth. If my 86 year old mother, raised with an Irish immigrant grandmother in Philadelphia, can come to the conclusion that the church needs a thorough cleansing, then we can have hope that others will too.
Mare I agree with you. as far as cleaning up. The problem is the bishops and pope made this mess and they are the only ones that really can clean it up. So we need to pressure them and educate people that is the frustrating part. If you have any other solutions let us know. Prayer is necessary but so is action. I see changes but its slow and long over due.
The bottom line is I believe our survivors and it breaks my heart when any child is abused and to distort or weaken a childs faith in Christ is just a horror to me because I know how much he has meant in my life.
Sounds a little condescending, Beth.
Sorry I don’t mean it that way. Sorry I apologize if it sounds that way. Thing with these blogs you don’t always get the tone of speech. I am just completely frustrated and depressed to tell you the truth……
Kinda desperate for new ideas at this point. Feel like many on this blog have exhausted so many ideas……..in the end its in Gods hands.
I think we are on the same side here and are fighting this horror in different ways. I have left the church but do not discredit those who stay and confront things there.
Thanks Mare. I don’t know if that last comment was meant for me or not. My parish is closing or being merged probably by May. The priests and all employees have to resign.The priests are the kindest most normal priests I have encountered. Our one priest was in Ireland and our pastor had pneumonia and when they tried to admit him to the hospital he said he couldn’t stay so he said all the weekend masses with pneumonia and coughed quit a bit. When he had surgery on his foot we were short priests and he limpid to mass for many weeks.Then I go to the vigils and I am so sorry for all the catholic church has done and failed to do for our survivors.Its all very sad……..
12ys ago I felt the HOLY Spirit tell me that this sin by clergy in the RCC was the “Unforgiveable. Sin! Any time I wrote it, I was “blasted” by a supposed person of faith.
Here is a good article on the real state of affairs in the Archdiocese..
What tugs at my heart are the victims, survivors, parents of children whose children have committed suicide because of the abuse, and all others who have been affected by clergy and all who have committed this most horrific crime against children. When another victim comes forward I pray that they have the fortitude to stand up against the rcc, and all involved. My views on JPII have changed 100%. Just heard he will be canonized next year………I believe our victims and survivors and will stand behind them always.
My faith, though, in Jesus continues to grow ever stronger. The Holy Spirit dwells in us, it is up to us to hear what He has to say.. and to live by it.
Peace. Hope to be at the vigil on Friday.
Denise my thoughts on John Paul II have changed also.
Denise I don’t know why there is this need to fast track both these Popes to Sainthood. I just read that Pope John did not even have a second miracle yet. Pope Francis waived the need for a second miracle. Then there is the talk about the liberal pope and conservative pope. Are they kidding me? What are they thinking? They should be spending their time and money on trying to save souls and help our survivors…….what a waste of time and money………..its like they are trying to manufacture a fake Christmas for themselves so they have something to look forward to or something……do they even know the church on the ground is falling apart?…….talk about coming up with distractions to get their minds off their problems……..
Beth, You echo my thoughts on this. The fast tracking of these Popes seems so desperate and insincere. And what about Mother Teresa?
Beth: I feel the Vatican is trying to distract what is really going on within the church. Isn’t the pope suppose to come to Philly next year, or has that been cancelled? canonization instead? Reaching for straws. Bottom line is Jesus knows all and they can do whatever….. We Christians all have the Holy Spirit inside, I know when I do something wrong. I pray and ask God for forgiveness, and try not to sin again. Are they above that? Looks like the evil one is alive and well, and thriving ………
Do as I say, not as I do. Morally Where are they? Law, Bevialcaqua.(sp) etc all the way down…….
S of L have to be reformed!
I believe our survivors/victims.
Fast-tracking pope JP2 to sainthood…has to have a second documented miracle? Who determines this? What witnesses does a person have to have in order to be considered for a “real” miracle vs. the everyday run of the mill miracle? Which committee of hierarchs determines the real vs. the fake miracle? Is it the same committee that determined the guilt or innocence of priests that perpetrated? Can you imagine what Jesus would say about all of this? Ranking what only He does for our gain, titles and recognition? Fairy dust and magic hats are next.
Every time they do something so inauthentic, they distance themselves from Him and The Body.
I just read that they have opted against the miracles and they can , give sainthood. without. the! Miacles.
Kathy that is an excellent article. Many conservative catholics were also concerned with Pope John Pauls peace prayer service at St. Francis Assisi birth place. Prayers were said not just by Christian faiths, Muslim and Jewish but also pagan religions which was very shocking for many catholics. Pope John Paul may have done some good works but he also compromised and injured the faith in very serious ways……..the most significant and tragic being the cover up of serial sexual abuse of our children..
To Surviovors wife, kathy and whomever…
what has blown my own mind, having beren raised and educated as a CAthoic, is the attitude of CAtholics towards the whole sordid affair regarding the CRIMES c ommitted against kids. Thereactions of most catholics was not believing the victims and saying they were only after money, to saying the vicdtims were as much to blame as the criminal perpetrators, throwing all this back on the victims. B U T…
the unbelievable comments I have received from othr catokics and religiousd-THAT KIDS WERE ABUSED AS CHILDREN GROW UP TO BECOME PEDOPHILES!!! sOME LOONEY PSYCHIATRIST HAS SPREAD THIS AROUND AND PEOPLE BELIEVE IT! iT RRULY AMAZES ME, as I look back on the history of the curch, how they can turn all of their terrible mistakes around blame the folks over the centuries who were trying to seet things straight. ( did not Martin Luther go down to Rome to question the sale of indulgences, but he had no idea that ahe would be tossed out of the church for trying to change this…..again accusations made against him to protect their sins.
to those of us wh o were violated as children, this latest accusation that we would become pedophiles IS MAKING THE VICTIMS AGAIN VICTIMS OF VICIOUS LIES AND PROPAGANDA TO VILIFY THE VICTIMS.
WHEN WILL THIS EVER STOP? ARE WE TO CONTINUE BLAMING THE INNOCENT KIDS WHOSE WHOLE LIVES HAVE BEEN DESTROYED BY SUCH VICIOUSNESS! Pray for the victims, they will need all the grace they can get to overcome the memories that cant be blotted out….plz, pray for the victims that they may still find a loving and caring God, who loves them dearly, just as HJE loved his son on the cross and the road to Calvary.
Patchy they turned it around on the kids/ victims because if they didn’t then all eyes would be on them..they would be exposed..they went with the” best defense is a good offense” theory and it worked much of the time. Blame the victim..that saying so true in these scenarios.
I don’t know who you talk to or what circles you socialize but I can share some good news that in the 3 years i have been involved in this I can’t count on one hand the number of times that someone has said it was the victims fault or they just want money etc….99% of the people i encounter want to share with me their own stories,their anger,their realization of all that has happened. People believe the victims more and more each day..that I can tell you. Victims have been treated horrendously,,spit upon, yelled at…there is no question about that … my prayer is that more and more people are waking up..I know that I have seen that happen.
Patchy I want you to know I pray all the time for our survivors, I pray for justice I pray for healing I pray that they know God loves them .Sometimes I write down specific names and sometimes I just ask Jesus to heal all our survivors. Sometimes I cant pray and my tears are my prayer. Almost always I pray the memorae because Mary knew the pain of a mother who has lost a child………
“Blame the victim” is pretty much every perpetrators argument. “They seduced me…they came after me…” In many accounts of a perp’s version of what happened, they blame the victim. There is usually some twist about how the victim is somehow to blame. Such a sick dynamic. That’s perpetrator mentality. Then in order to cover for a perp, the enablers do the same…thus becoming another abuser to the victim.
Research is clear on this though…fight those comments with truth. “If it were true that victims who were sexually abused then become abusers…the perps, by now, would mostly be women!”
Kathy, you may not hear about the greed of victims now because it doesn’t have to be said any longer. The hierarchs purposely created a climate that was hostile to victims. The hierarchy did an excellent job of discrediting them early. They also could do a great service to victims by letting parishioners know they are NOT greedy…but they don’t do any damage control. Why not? I believe it’s because they are ok with Catholics believing it. It works to their advantage. Even if no one says it…victims know that in order to come forward, they will have to work against this type of thinking.
survivors wife , A similar thing happened with the Sandusky crimes. Many comments on news articles referenced these victims,mostly young men from broken homes, being out for a pay day. There is a mentality that surrounds this even outside of the Church. I am not quite sure why.
Is it because with a murder there is a body, with physical abuse there are scars but with sexual abuse there is often no “evidence”? If people can’t “see” it ,they don’t believe it?
Certainly happens everywhere. In families, it’s usually a claim that the child is out to destroy the family. It could possibly be because the family/church/institution has to maintain the denial, because the alternative is crushing to the ego and image?
I’m sure there are dozens of reasons why people can’t believe it.
SW and Kathy, I wonder if this mentality comes from the fear a denier feels inside when he or she hears an abuse story. When an abuse story is presented, they instantly listen and look for reasons CSA could never be a problem in their own lives. By doubting and blaming the victim, they gain a sort of “mental distance” from the horror of it…..and most importantly, from the the awful possibility that such things could ever happen to them and theirs.
Crystal I think it is so “dark” for people..too dark a subject. Murder is ‘dark” but there is no denying when looking at a dead body. So maybe the denial kicks into high gear especially when the perpetrator is the person people least suspect…Sandusky wasn’t a creepy looking guy in a dark alley..he was a coach with kids. Many abusive priests were well thought of by the community…so what does one do with this..stuff it down..deny it..reject it..then it didn’t happen. ..then it can’t happen to my kids..my family..my loved ones .I am not referring to victims but the general public.
Kathy: It is a DARK subject, and I was taught back in the 50s & 60s to fear the Lord. It wasn’t until the early 80’s that I was introduced to the Our Lord, Jesus Christ, and that He is an all loving God. Remembering the Holy Ghost, Ghost I was afraid of the” Ghost”. And the rules and regulations to abide by, and if not mortal or venial sin………Really?? Which leads up to the pew sheep…….blinders on. No question, or else….. How would Jesus react???
How the hierarchy can turn their backs on poor innocent children, and cover it up blows my mind. We see the darkness Why don’t they? They are to busy hiding denying all that has been done in the rcc…
I believe our victims/survivors.
News of a different, but very important, sort:
ARCHBISHOP CHAPUT’S WEEKLY CALENDAR
Wednesday, Oct. 2 to Friday, Oct. 4, 2013
Priests’ Fall Workshop,
St. Helena Church, Blue Bell
LEST WE FORGET THE LAST TIME WE HAD THE PHILADELPHIA CLERGY AND LEADERSHIP GET TOGETHER OUT THERE: ‘STANDING OVATION’
POSTED: OCTOBER 05, 2011
Msgr. William J. Lynn, the former church official awaiting trial for allegedly protecting sexually abusive priests, drew words of encouragement from Philadelphia’s new archbishop and a standing ovation from scores of priests at a private gathering last month, according to people familiar with the event.
During the invitation-only dinner for Archbishop Charles J. Chaput at a parish hall in Montgomery County, Chaput singled out Lynn in the crowd and noted how difficult the ordeal has been for him, according to one priest who attended and two people briefed by others at the gala.
Much of the audience, which included hundreds of priests, then stood and applauded, said the sources, who asked not to be identified.
The exchange, in a banquet room at St. Helena’s in Blue Bell, spanned just seconds in a talk by Chaput on changes and his vision for the Archdiocese of Philadelphia. But it reflected one of the strongest signals of support for Lynn since his arrest and suspension from ministry in February.
Again, my c4c updates have stopped coming in my email account. I suppose someone wants
me “out of the loop” and does that repeatedly. Please continue sending me the updates— not everyone here wants me gone!